Are You Serious About Becoming Self Realized

[charlie2dogs]

I never intended on starting a topic on the site ever, but this morning it is different.  The title of the topic is the issue, are you really serious about becoming self realized,  there are many misconceptions about enlightenment or rather what i call self realization.  Programing, false belief, doctrines, philosophies, methods, practices are holding many back from real growth, because they become trapped in ideas that don't really produce growth.  I understand the evolution of human consciousness,  we are what the evolution of consciousness has brought us to, up until this moment.  There are a few good teachers on the earth at this time, that actually can point an individual with the ability to hear toward liberation from the identity body and ego, but the individuals consciousness must have begun to awaken before any real growth can begin.  Even after consciousness begins to awaken, it can be very confusing, because of the many distractions from programing and the false beliefs that are held, along with all the theories, methods, practices, journeys, and levels, philosophies, doctrines.  Most of these things are nothing but distractions and yet many will say its just part of your growth, well it doesn't have to be that way, its that way because those who are teaching these things have never had the experience of self realization, they teach doctrines and philosophies, not the reality of what self realization is about.

The reality of experiencing self realization is far less complicated than the millions and millions and millions of those trying to teach it.  It is almost too simple for the average mind to grasp.  Self realization is this, consciousness awakening and remembering itself, and realizing that in creating the identity body and becoming attached to it, to the degree that it actually became lost in the identity body and ego, began to take on programing, then formed a false belief system from all of that and ended up with a warped perception of everything.  As consciousness begins to awaken from this dream called life it will begin to seek liberation from the identity body that it created to the degree that it can and will function as a being of consciousness and not the identity body and ego while it remains in this dimension.

So in effect what is happening is that consciousness is seeking wholeness.  If you as consciousness have this urge or desire within for something that you don't yet understand but feel that it is very important to your well being,  then embrace it as much as possible, if you can, contemplate it,  Instead of a lot of practices and methods, simply spend some time being still, being quiet, drop all the meditation stuff, forget about stilling the mind, it don't and won't work, and just be still and quiet and begin to embrace the life force within the core of your being, feel it, experience it more and more, be one with it.  When you are one with it, there will be nothing else, you will be experiencing the moment of life as pure consciousness.  This will grow and expand as time passes until you find that you are spending a great deal of time in this space of being, even as you go about what ever daily activities you perform, they can be performed from this space of being.  This being of consciousness is love, love is a state of being not an act performed by the identity body.  This is the place of peace, joy.  This is where your knowledge and understanding will come from that will liberate you.  Consciousness has been evolving for a very long time, it has more experience than i care to try and talk about and knowledge and understanding, what is it that consciousness cannot give you if you are in the right space of being to receive it without all the distractions, programing, false beliefs, fictitious identity and ego?  Another great thing about being self realized is that you will be experiencing your true state of being while you are still in your physical body, and when consciousness decides that it is time to depart the physical body, you will step out of the body in a conscious, present, aware state of being as pure consciousness, safe, secure and at peace,  without the limitations of the identity body, ego, and its desires.

There are some fine lines in this that many may want to debate,  those fine lines are not important, what is important is that you grasp what it is that you are seeking and how to achieve it with the least amount of effort, time, energy, distractions, consciousness will do what needs to be done, just be one with it.  Once self realized you will no longer need spiritual practices, meditation, philosophies, doctrines, you will be liberated from all that, you will have become the I am, the true master, the source of life and all creation.

P.S.  Leo's video's will show you where you are in this process, when the time comes that you fully understand his work and can embrace it, you will be ready for liberation.

 

[Salaam]

Sorry, but I read this... and I see very little in the way of practical application or substance. Plus, I see a lot of "red flag" conceptual flaws in your writing that tell me you haven't developed things beyond a certain point.

You talk about growth, knowledge, and understanding, well what kind of growth and understandings have you gained from your experiences? What kind of capabilities have you gained? What are you working on currently? How have your efforts impacted your health and your sensitivity to the changes that happen within your body? How are your relationships and connections with people, both intimate and not? How has your ability to express yourself changed? Your ability to choose?

Speaking of choice, you say you never intended to start a topic till now, are you aware of all the things that went on under the surface that galvanized you to write this post? If so, tell me about them.

If you have these understandings like you say you do, break them down for me.

You talk about peace and love and joy? But what about pain, fragility, stress?

I'm not trying to kick down your sandcastle for shits and giggles, but there are people that come to this site genuinely seeking help and I don't want them wasting their time or hurting themselves because of unbalanced views and advice.

[charlie2dogs]

2 hours ago, Salaam said:

Sorry, but I read this... and I see very little in the way of practical application or substance. Plus, I see a lot of "red flag" conceptual flaws in your writing that tell me you haven't developed things beyond a certain point.

You talk about growth, knowledge, and understanding, well what kind of growth and understandings have you gained from your experiences? What kind of capabilities have you gained? What are you working on currently? How have your efforts impacted your health and your sensitivity to the changes that happen within your body? How are your relationships and connections with people, both intimate and not? How has your ability to express yourself changed? Your ability to choose?

Speaking of choice, you say you never intended to start a topic till now, are you aware of all the things that went on under the surface that galvanized you to write this post? If so, tell me about them.

If you have these understandings like you say you do, break them down for me.

You talk about peace and love and joy? But what about pain, fragility, stress?

I'm not trying to kick down your sandcastle for shits and giggles, but there are people that come to this site genuinely seeking help and I don't want them wasting their time or hurting themselves because of unbalanced views and advice.

it is apparent by your statements here that you didnt understand much, if anything i said, at least on a level that will contribute to personal growth.  If and when you understand it, the answers you want from me you will find in what i said for yourself.  What i wrote is not subject to debate,  Your whole post is nothing more than a criticism of something you couldnt even understand that i wrote, so it would be fruitless, to give you another piece to do the same with.  Your text was not about understanding or learning something, it was just purely a criticism,  I don't and won't play games with human identities and ego and i dont want to participate in nonsense on the site, if what i wrote is of no value to you, simply ignore it and move on with your own life. 

you said: there are people that come to this site genuinely seeking help and I don't want them wasting their time or hurting themselves because of unbalanced views and advice.  and who are you to decide this for yourself, i will take note of how many have your attitude, so far no one other than you has had a problem with what i wrote, maybe because some of them are awakening, learning and growing and looking for answers and help.  If you are concerned about unbalanced views and advice you should spend some time with your response.  Now please dont waste your time, mine or the forums with more nonsense.

[Henri]

@charlie2dogs  Thank you for your post.

I agree with everything you wrote down. A lot of so called `teachers` who never experienced enlightenment themselves. The, in a way, simplicity of enlightenment and what it means to `achieve` that enlightenment. I fully understand your need to share it with the readers here.

Just sit down, embrace your inner being and so on, I agree it`s enough. It`s just that it is not for everyone. To do that one needs a certain `amount` of readiness of surrendering. And this surrendering is mostly the final step, so to speak, to enlightenment-experience. I repeat, everything you say is fine is good is right. But this willingness, readiness or how one can call it of the notion of surrendering is the `divine` key. And this is where all the different types of people come in. This is where all the different paths get in, the different experiences of life, cultures, temperaments, views, beliefs and so on.

A follower and devotee of Krishna, practising Bhakti, will say it is the shortcut to enlightenment. And he is right. When you are able to do that total consciously it is a shortcut. It`s just not for everyone to be able to get that longing for the beloved one so intensive.

This counts in a way for all the paths. There are people who get offended when you tell them it is very easy. Those people you have to tell to walk around the globe two times to get enlightened and they`ll do that. They need that to get to that state of surrender and letting go. 

But is that not the beauty of it all? One goal and so many different ways?

[charlie2dogs]

2 minutes ago, Henri said:

@charlie2dogs  Thank you for your post.

I agree with everything you wrote down. A lot of so called `teachers` who never experienced enlightenment themselves. The, in a way, simplicity of enlightenment and what it means to `achieve` that enlightenment. I fully understand your need to share it with the readers here.

Just sit down, embrace your inner being and so on, I agree it`s enough. It`s just that it is not for everyone. To do that one needs a certain `amount` of readiness of surrendering. And this surrendering is mostly the final step, so to speak, to enlightenment-experience. I repeat, everything you say is fine is good is right. But this willingness, readiness or how one can call it of the notion of surrendering is the `divine` key. And this is where all the different types of people come in. This is where all the different paths get in, the different experiences of life, cultures, temperaments, views, beliefs and so on.

A follower and devotee of Krishna, practising Bhakti, will say it is the shortcut to enlightenment. And he is right. When you are able to do that total consciously it is a shortcut. It`s just not for everyone to be able to get that longing for the beloved one so intensive.

This counts in a way for all the paths. There are people who get offended when you tell them it is very easy. Those people you have to tell to walk around the globe two times to get enlightened and they`ll do that. They need that to get to that state of surrender and letting go. 

But is that not the beauty of it all? One goal and so many different ways?

I appreciate your response Henri, and yes surrendering, i think is the final step.  I agree on the one goal many ways.

[SkyPanther]

I agree with @Henri.  I think the idea of enlightenment is simple, and because it is so simple it turns out to be really hard for most people to comprehend.  Mostly because they have conceptualized the idea so much. 

Some people may not be ready, or more often, do not understand what "enlightenment" means.  Or, if they do, they will find it really "dumb", or "counter" to cultural/social mores (usually this happens in the west).

This is why a lot of teachers, particularly in Zen, but also in other traditions, try to make the person "work" for it.  Because most think that to achieve anything in life you need to suffer to get it. It is really rare that you can go up to a person, explain the existential nature of existence (why there is something rather than "nothing") and have them "wake up".   Most will think you are insane, or might grasp it on an intellectual level, but the "realization" won't come because their mind is buried with too much concepts, beliefs, opinions, views, and a sense of an egoic permanent "self".

This is where systematic paths come in handy, Buddhism, Advaita Vedanta, etc, etc; paths that lead a person to realizing what they were seeking was always there, but obscured by beliefs/concepts. When that happens the beliefs, even in the path itself, should drop away. And all that should be left is the realization.

I think it is easy for people that have already realized to say "Hey! It's so simple, you're just not seeing it and here is why!" But the actual truth of the matter, for people that have not self-realized, may be too foreign for their "egoic" self to grasp, or even allow to be grasped. 

[Henri]

One who is defeated is not able to surrender. Surrendering requires strength.

Meaning of surrendering in the different paths and ages.

[Corte]

@charlie2dogs , I'd like to say that I am one of those, mentioned, coming to this site to find help and inspiration. Your words were the simplicity I so desperately search for. Complicated problems don't require complicated solutions. I thought it was well written and straight to the point, of which many people are too busy "searching" to notice. How much of this simplicity, or enlightenment, have you experienced? Do you live long term in the state you described above? Thank you for your post. 

Edited April 29, 2016 by Corte

[Salaam]

On 4/28/2016 at 3:57 PM, charlie2dogs said:

it is apparent by your statements here that you didnt understand much, if anything i said, at least on a level that will contribute to personal growth.  If and when you understand it, the answers you want from me you will find in what i said for yourself.  What i wrote is not subject to debate,  Your whole post is nothing more than a criticism of something you couldnt even understand that i wrote, so it would be fruitless, to give you another piece to do the same with.  Your text was not about understanding or learning something, it was just purely a criticism,  I don't and won't play games with human identities and ego and i dont want to participate in nonsense on the site, if what i wrote is of no value to you, simply ignore it and move on with your own life. 

you said: there are people that come to this site genuinely seeking help and I don't want them wasting their time or hurting themselves because of unbalanced views and advice.  and who are you to decide this for yourself, i will take note of how many have your attitude, so far no one other than you has had a problem with what i wrote, maybe because some of them are awakening, learning and growing and looking for answers and help.  If you are concerned about unbalanced views and advice you should spend some time with your response.  Now please dont waste your time, mine or the forums with more nonsense.

Project much?

You say you understand the evolution of human consciousness, well then tell me about it. Tell me about consciousness, tell me about the differentiations of awareness, tell me how the brain partitions those differentiations and the forces that come into play. Tell me how the body paces and processes them. Give me nuance about attachment, polarities and the forces that make it come about. You don't have those understandings, because you haven't done the work yet.

It's okay to say "I don't know", be vulnerable and risk your dependency on entitlements and validation and be authentic. There are still a lot of things I don't know, but the difference between me and you is that I balance and differentiate my ignorance, so it works with me and keeps me grounded. I'm aware of my degree of blindness, so I don't make the double mistake most people do of being blind to my own blindness, due to neglect of this self-responsibility.  

You talk about growth, but when I question you about the substance of that growth, you retreat into bullshit authority frames and say what you wrote is not subject to debate. Then you try to gaslight me, saying that because I'm questioning you and holding you accountable, that shows I'm too far from your imaginary level of transcendence to make answering my questions "fruitful".

Come on man, I'm the wrong one to try that on.

Every single question I asked you, I will happily answer, because I've actually done the work and have real results and understandings. I've got a journal here accounting the amount of work and growth I've processed just in the past month or so.

Look, this really is about balance. You ask who am I to decide? Who I am is a person who has developed a real strong system of balance, because I'm very aware of how ignorance, bias, limitation, and lack of character distort things. Those questions I originally asked you, epitomize balance.  Which makes me shake my head all the more in light of your response to it.

If a person is going to grow, in what areas would that growth manifest? It would manifest in their Health (spiritual, emotional, mental), Capabilities (skills, understandings, abilities), Choice (degree of choice, richness, balance), Self-Expression (nuance, richness, diversity), and Connection. 

Health x Capability x Choice x Expression x Connection

Do you understand the balance and synergy? The healthier you are the more you capable you can be. The more capable you are, the wider and deeper your choices can be. The more you can choose the depth and direction of your life, the richer your expressions of that life lived will be. The richer your expressions, the deeper and more intimate your connections can be.

They all work and help each other together. That is an example of organized and balanced, growth and harmony. That is real, substantive, and can be applied by anyone as a platform to help themselves keep track and balance their different facets of growth.

Anyways, I don't expect you to answer this honestly, but hopefully others on here find the value in these questions and have the courage to answer them for themselves as they grow and find their way.
 

[charlie2dogs]

1 hour ago, Salaam said:

Project much?

You say you understand the evolution of human consciousness, well then tell me about it. Tell me about consciousness, tell me about the differentiations of awareness, tell me how the brain partitions those differentiations and the forces that come into play. Tell me how the body paces and processes them. Give me nuance about attachment, polarities and the forces that make it come about. You don't have those understandings, because you haven't done the work yet.

It's okay to say "I don't know", be vulnerable and risk your dependency on entitlements and validation and be authentic. There are still a lot of things I don't know, but the difference between me and you is that I balance and differentiate my ignorance, so it works with me and keeps me grounded. I'm aware of my degree of blindness, so I don't make the double mistake most people do of being blind to my own blindness, due to neglect of this self-responsibility.  

You talk about growth, but when I question you about the substance of that growth, you retreat into bullshit authority frames and say what you wrote is not subject to debate. Then you try to gaslight me, saying that because I'm questioning you and holding you accountable, that shows I'm too far from your imaginary level of transcendence to make answering my questions "fruitful".

Come on man, I'm the wrong one to try that on.

Every single question I asked you, I will happily answer, because I've actually done the work and have real results and understandings. I've got a journal here accounting the amount of work and growth I've processed just in the past month or so.

Look, this really is about balance. You ask who am I to decide? Who I am is a person who has developed a real strong system of balance, because I'm very aware of how ignorance, bias, limitation, and lack of character distort things. Those questions I originally asked you, epitomize balance.  Which makes me shake my head all the more in light of your response to it.

If a person is going to grow, in what areas would that growth manifest? It would manifest in their Health (spiritual, emotional, mental), Capabilities (skills, understandings, abilities), Choice (degree of choice, richness, balance), Self-Expression (nuance, richness, diversity), and Connection. 

Health x Capability x Choice x Expression x Connection

Do you understand the balance and synergy? The healthier you are the more you capable you can be. The more capable you are, the wider and deeper your choices can be. The more you can choose the depth and direction of your life, the richer your expressions of that life lived will be. The richer your expressions, the deeper and more intimate your connections can be.

They all work and help each other together. That is an example of organized and balanced, growth and harmony. That is real, substantive, and can be applied by anyone as a platform to help themselves keep track and balance their different facets of growth.

Anyways, I don't expect you to answer this honestly, but hopefully others on here find the value in these questions and have the courage to answer them for themselves as they grow and find their way.
 

first of all you cant and arent going to hold me accountable for anything, you just think you are.  Second I dont debate with egos.  In both your emails all you have shown me is your arrogance and criticism, i dont have time for that kind of behavior.  You may as well drop it and move on, I dont want to hear your nonsense and i wont respond to you again.

[Salaam]

Yup, pretty much what I expected from you. You're not really serious about growing, you just want that hit of validation from posting over and over on a message board.

My Arrogance? You do realize that you started a thread about becoming self-realized, where you spouted all kinds of grandiose claims with very little in the way of substantive REALIZATIONS to back it up. 

You're mistaking capability for arrogance, when you'd be better off examining your own hubris.



 

Edited May 3, 2016 by Salaam

[MarkusR]

@charlie2dogs Dude, Salaam has a point here. You cant just pull the "oh your just an ego" card. He has some very valid points about balance and true understanding. His criticism seemed constructive and genuine. You can not fully develop if you let yourself be blind to your own shortcomings, so take it as a sign that I as well am taking Salaams side and try to confide it in yourself to either constructively object to his claims with proper argumentation, or self reflect for a moment and notice that you may be in the wrong for once.

[charlie2dogs]

27 minutes ago, MarkusR said:

@charlie2dogs Dude, Salaam has a point here. You cant just pull the "oh your just an ego" card. He has some very valid points about balance and true understanding. His criticism seemed constructive and genuine. You can not fully develop if you let yourself be blind to your own shortcomings, so take it as a sign that I as well am taking Salaams side and try to confide it in yourself to either constructively object to his claims with proper argumentation, or self reflect for a moment and notice that you may be in the wrong for once.

Markus I am self realized, iam not here to debate my own experience with you are anyone else, i am here to share what i have experienced and learned through consciousness itself and share that with those who are seeking the same.  I have no interest nor intend to haggle with those who want to pick apart and take issue with things and be rude,  rather than try to grasp the concept of what i am sharing.  My only interest here is to contribute something to those who have a real desire to be self realized, and reach the highest version of themselves.  I talk with and share with those who are real and want to know, and want to grow, i know who they are and i do my best to give them the experience that can to help them,  I have no expectations of pleasing everyone here, I am here for the few, who are awakening and those conduct themselves in a way that tells me they are real, and that they are seeking the same thing it took me ages to achieve.  Peace,  I'm out.