Dissecting The Psychedelic Experience

[electroBeam]

@Leo Gura and whoever else. Do you agree that psychedelics cannot be remembered and therefore that renders them useless?

I've never taken psychedelics before, but have done astral projections countless times. I suffer from the same problem, its very hard to remember the insights. I can imagine that it would be the same for DMT

[tsuki]

It's not about what you do, but about who you are. Insights are not to be remembered, but to be embodied.

[electroBeam]

11 minutes ago, tsuki said:

It's not about what you do, but about who you are. Insights are not to be remembered, but to be embodied.

but is a psychedelic trip enough time to embody an insight?

[tsuki]

Plenty. LSD trip lasts 12 hours and you have plenty of time to observe what is happening.

If you understand what is being done there and are able to move your energy like that, then all hell breaks loose.

[Inliytened1]

Consciousness forever changes with mystical experiences.  Its not the substance its mysticism.  The substance only helps consciousness mystically shift.

Consciousnes is infinite and you are a sliver that continually grows and merges with universal consciousness.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

@electroBeam It's just factually false that psychedelic trips cannot be remembered.

I can remember some of my earliest trips as though they happened yesterday. The memories can be very vivid and even emotional, inspiring, and awakening.

When I go over some of my deepest trips in my memory, it actually shifts my consciousness up a few notches in the now.

Insights are also not just a matter of memory. Deep insights change your whole worldview and recontextualize life.

I can never just forget that I am God. That understanding is with me no matter how bad I might feel.

It's sort of like school. You don't need to remember all the details and facts in order for school to have significantly shaped your life. The trips reshape you even if you can't fully recall them.

[Matt8800]

@electroBeam No, that is not true in the least. I have had trips that permanently and radically changed me.

Ive seen you post multiple posts trying to say that psychedelics are not useful, even though you admit you have no experience.

Dont take them if you dont want to but understand you have no clue about what you are talking about. You seem to have some attachment to your argument and trying to convince other people. 

Edited June 15, 2019 by Matt8800

[Shadowraix]

You can remember them. Some trips can be so profound they stick with you immediately and change you. Others can provide insights that would need to be reflected on and integrated into your practices to understand and embody.

I had an ego death experience that was very profound in the trip, but I came right back to my ego self sobering up not thinking much of it. It wasn't until a specific drug combo I had such a powerful awakening that was so profound it stuck with me and changed me forever. Consciousness has been way up ever since that trip. 

DMT can have memory issues when smoking it but plenty of people remember it. But that is a very short experience. 30 mins and is very intense on the body and visually. Ayahuasca (Brewed DMT), Shrooms, LSD and so on last hours. Smoking DMT, you don't think really, you are taken on a ride. Most other psychedelics give you enough conscious control to really take it in. 

[GabeN]

It's true some insights can be forgotten, but i learned to write them down as soon as i have them, they will still make sense too!

Edited June 15, 2019 by GabeN

[electroBeam]

7 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

DMT can have memory issues when smoking it but plenty of people remember it. But that is a very short experience. 30 mins and is very intense on the body and visually. Ayahuasca (Brewed DMT), Shrooms, LSD and so on last hours. Smoking DMT, you don't think really, you are taken on a ride. Most other psychedelics give you enough conscious control to really take it in. 

yeah that seems to be the trend I've noticed. The more powerful the drug and the less time it lasts, the less you remember.

Shrooms and LSD may be better.

[Shadowraix]

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

yeah that seems to be the trend I've noticed. The more powerful the drug and the less time it lasts, the less you remember.

Shrooms and LSD may be better.

Yeah. Salvia is in a similar boat. The only major exception is dissociatives that I can think of for hallucinogenic substances. Really hard to remember experiences but very magical and packed with many insights but I don't recommend them for health reasons. 

[Matt8800]

16 hours ago, electroBeam said:

yeah that seems to be the trend I've noticed. The more powerful the drug and the less time it lasts, the less you remember.

Shrooms and LSD may be better.

No, thats not really an accurate assessment. The more powerful the psychedelic, the more insights. When inundated with insights, sometimes the lesser ones are remembered less but that is just because there are so many.

[Nahm]

On 6/15/2019 at 5:27 AM, electroBeam said:

@Leo Gura and whoever else. Do you agree that psychedelics cannot be remembered and therefore that renders them useless?

I've never taken psychedelics before, but have done astral projections countless times. I suffer from the same problem, its very hard to remember the insights. I can imagine that it would be the same for DMT

You have forgotten that you created all of this, and put psychedelics into your dream, in case you want to remember who you really are. You are looking at psych’s from the false stand point of ‘you already know who you are’, and that the “insights” could be “forgotten” by some “one” which is separate from the “insights”. You have it backwards, and it’s a whole charade, and it is your suffering. There is no such thing as insights, at all. It only appears so in a false state of forgotten. The actuality of “insights” is recognition of your actual infinite self.

The “suffering”, therefore, the “problem”, is literally something you are making up, and believing to be true. This is only possible due to false beliefs you hold about yourself, in you’re authentic desire to remember, but your inauthentic fear to let go. Rather, forget, to actually, remember. Let every memory go, that ain’t it, it’s just a thought. Here, now, this is you. Shed such nonsensory, in an hour of meditation every morning. You’ll hate it. But then you’ll Remember. Then you’ll see there is nothing to remember, and you will laugh. Probably for months. 

Next time you notice you forgot something...something simple, like your phone, or your car keys...stop and notice - you can never come up with a reason you forgot. Because there is no reason, prior to forgetting. “Reason” too, is you.  

[Shadowraix]

53 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

No, thats not really an accurate assessment. The more powerful the psychedelic, the more insights. When inundated with insights, sometimes the lesser ones are remembered less but that is just because there are so many.

What he means is actually remembering the experience. Lots of people smoke dmt and don't even remember the experience. If you do then yeah getting bombarded can make it a bit overwhelming. 

@Nahm This doesn't seem helpful to someone in the dual. Remembering the experience is what helps one grasp the nondual. To experience the deconstructed sense of self. All this theory won't help without the experience to back it. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Shadowraix

[Nahm]

@Shadowraix Not sure I follow / understand you. Can you elaborate on how remembering an experience helps grasp nonduality? 

[Shadowraix]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Shadowraix Not sure I follow / understand you. Can you elaborate on how remembering an experience helps grasp nonduality? 

When you sober up you enter back into a dualistic mindset. Without the memory of it you can't begin to embody the ever fleeting insights. The impact of memory and it's feelings can almost "simulate" the experience again. These are great reminders of the experience of nondual consciousness. Of what is being worked towards. 

Profound experiences that are forgotten might not have as much impact if it is not followed up on. Memory is a great example of how theory and practice can come together. 

[Nahm]

@Shadowraix Thanks for elaborating. I see what you’re saying. I’d go the other route though, and see how the dualistic mindset is recreated.  I feel the memory utilization would only perpetuate the emotional release, a mental status quo of sorts. After the purification, nonduality is eventually the norm. I would say the memory is only a thought, and repetition is counter productive.  I can see how different approaches work for different people though. That’s just one. 

[electroBeam]

6 hours ago, Nahm said:

You have forgotten that you created all of this, and put psychedelics into your dream, in case you want to remember who you really are. You are looking at psych’s from the false stand point of ‘you already know who you are’, and that the “insights” could be “forgotten” by some “one” which is separate from the “insights”. You have it backwards, and it’s a whole charade, and it is your suffering. There is no such thing as insights, at all. It only appears so in a false state of forgotten. The actuality of “insights” is recognition of your actual infinite self.

The “suffering”, therefore, the “problem”, is literally something you are making up, and believing to be true. This is only possible due to false beliefs you hold about yourself, in you’re authentic desire to remember, but your inauthentic fear to let go. Rather, forget, to actually, remember. Let every memory go, that ain’t it, it’s just a thought. Here, now, this is you. Shed such nonsensory, in an hour of meditation every morning. You’ll hate it. But then you’ll Remember. Then you’ll see there is nothing to remember, and you will laugh. Probably for months. 

yes that's right. You can't remember because memories are a product of illusion. The only thing that exists right now is the present moment, and literally everything is inside it, including MIT, CMU, the milky way galaxy, and you! You are literally in my present moment right now! You're hiding in the nothingness, you're not in Canada! Your in that nothingness! I can see you right now literally!

But the best part is, at the exact same time you are in Canada aswell! Non duality and Duality are both true, and this entire post is both a big joke, because there are no memories to remember, but at the same time its not, because you can use memories to wake yourself up, even if they are illusions.

Remember what Ramana Maharshi said about spiritual teachers? Yes spiritual teachers are illusions, but they are illusions that can wake you up! Just like how a lion in a dream you could of had last night can wake you up from sleeping!

[Nahm]

@electroBeam Nice.   The tears are the juice! ♥️

[Nahm]

On 6/16/2019 at 3:26 PM, Shadowraix said:

When you sober up you enter back into a dualistic mindset. Without the memory of it you can't begin to embody the ever fleeting insights. The impact of memory and it's feelings can almost "simulate" the experience again. These are great reminders of the experience of nondual consciousness. Of what is being worked towards. 

Profound experiences that are forgotten might not have as much impact if it is not followed up on. Memory is a great example of how theory and practice can come together. 

Just had another context (‘time’) for this and thought I’d mention it....

A case could be made that what (ideally) psychedelics reveal, is there is only the Self (Actual Reality), pretending / dreaming a self & physical reality. That there has never been a thing called “the past”, sans a thought / veil of the fact of Actual Reality. In remembering a thought, there is an assumption at play, that there is an actual past in which what is thought / remembered, actually happened, and if the past is thought to be actual, even via a single memory, then now is influenced (“covered” / “veiled”) by illusion (taking an arising thought now, with implication of “past”, as actuality, or proof of, a past). Without that assumption, with only now, the “past” will actually convincingly appear to conform to support / align with, the now / creation/creating/spontaneously. (The “past” would “change”, but we wouldn't notice) This would mean there is no actual “sober up and enter back into the dualistic mindset”. That actual thought - the content it implies - would have to be believed, for that to be experienced as such. 

Most simply put, if “the path” is one of construction, recall memories, and add them to now.

If “the path” is one of deconstruction, let every thought (memories are now thoughts) go. 

As far as “memory is a great example of how theory and practice can come together”...this would mean it actually is a veil, with the implication it is not a veil. (“Veil” being relative to not recognizing the self in all).