Martin Ball can’t sleep anymore

[SunnyNewDay]

1 hour ago, Sick Boy said:

Maybe he "losed" his awakening state temporarily under a heavy and long distress.

I didn't know that Christ said those painful words, feelsbadman.jpg.

I thought he died in perfect equanimity or something like that.

Like that vietnamese monk who burned himself to death.

Some say he was full of love and compassion for those torturing him and all of humanity as he died.

Some teachers aren't as far along as we would like to believe. Also, that doesn't make their teaching useless. I think that's why it's important to not defend, idolize or speculate about teachers. How far along is superfluous. It's about following and cultivating our intuition and treating what works for ourselves. The guru is ourselves, not someone else, so it doesn't matter if someone is only partially awoken or truly purified and enlightened. 

 

[Display_Name]

One of the few interesting / insightful threads around here. Thanks. Interesting to chew on. Martin is an interesting case for sure. Reminds me of that creepypasta where victims are kept awake forcefully and turn into monsters lol. 

For what it's worth, he does *sound* relatively healthy and sound and in good humour. 

Ralston remains as the most advanced / complete feeling teacher to me. 

Remember also that Rali guy experienced 5meo awakening then went through a complete delusional nutcase phase. 

Catching up on some karma? 

Personally ive been taking a break from 5meo since about a month to fully integrate and embody red / orange for the next year(s) 

[Curiousobserver]

Indeed. that is a result of many cases today where people are doing psychedelics just because someone they follow also is doing them, this is not wise at all. This is a mental game and a mental calling and many people are not ready for these types of experiences.

Psychedelics or Plant teachers/Entheogens should be of a natural, higher, spiritual, intuitive calling where you are 100% certain its not coming from the mind and its attachments to mystical experiences. This is when the effect and de-fragmenting is most effective.

Similarly to people going Vegan today, most people are doing it because they see others doing it and wanna do better for the planet not realizing they may not be psychologically/physiologically prepared for the change because they are not in tune with themselves and following their intuition rather following their mind and then their bodies go into shock and chaos thus mind and emotions follow.

This is why daily spiritual practice and meditation, grounding and similar forms of centering and silencing the mind is crucial in today's day and age so any decision you make is with great awareness. There is a lot of confusion among spiritual and conscious communities because people do not keep up practice but they always claim they do.

Namaste

Edited June 19, 2019 by Curiousobserver

[Arhattobe]

Delusions and psychosis go hand in hand with awakening and the path in general. Psychedelics can make both a lot stickier, and ones blind spots a lot less visible.

[Curiousobserver]

What i forgot to mention also is frequent use of psychedelics energetically overstimulates us thus we can never remained in the enlightened state if our nervous system is overstimulated. This is very common among cannabis users because it has a tenancy to be abused more often than stronger psychedelics.

[noselfnofun]

On 16/06/2019 at 2:31 AM, Leo Gura said:

It does change you for sure, but in subtle ways.

Mostly what I have gained in not equanimity but understanding, humility, love, God, authenticity, wonder, and overcoming the fear of death. The body is more at ease too.

 

How many 5emo trips would you say  it took before you overcame the fear of death?

[Elisabeth]

On 14. 6. 2019 at 11:30 PM, Paulus Amadeus said:

@whoareyou I define enlightenment as being free from the ego, which he claimed he was because of 5meo-dmt. And now he says he is not anymore. Am I crazy for thinking this is significant?

Jefferey Martin (the guy who studies enlightenment most scientifically) claims in his book, that even stable enlightenment, which lasted years prior, can be lost under extreme stress. He's had people contact him asking about how they can get their 'fundamental well being' back. A regress is obviously something that does happen and is not unique to the 5-meo path. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Elisabeth

[Leo Gura]

11 hours ago, noselfnofun said:

How many 5emo trips would you say  it took before you overcame the fear of death?

You can't really define it like that.

It's not that I have no fear of death, it's that my relationship to death has changed. Again, it's  subtle shift. You do not become Terminator.

The body still instinctively doesn't like the notion of death because it will not survive the process.

[Sempiternity]

@Leo Gura  Now this confuses me a bit. If one knows without a doubt that they do not exist, are an illusion/video game character, and the true self is God of everything and is immortal, then why would one have even the slightest fear of death? If one knows the body isn't real, why would you care? Knowing that the illusionary body's instinct for survival is part of the illusion. In this space, I would suspect death would mean nothing at all. No more than a video game character you've been playing dying, utterly meaningless. 

[Arhattobe]

Because conscious knowing doesn’t rid you of subconscious, and instinctual conditioning 

[Finax]

I understand Martin’s description of his pain perfectly. I have experienced those “waves of death” he says, from habitual Weed use w/ meditation. I’ve never taken 5meo though. 

 

When I stop the weed, then I don’t have these problems ever. But it’s amazing how Martin perfectly describe some past struggles I had.

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Jed Vassallo said:

@Leo Gura  Now this confuses me a bit. If one knows without a doubt that they do not exist, are an illusion/video game character, and the true self is God of everything and is immortal, then why would one have even the slightest fear of death? If one knows the body isn't real, why would you care? Knowing that the illusionary body's instinct for survival is part of the illusion. In this space, I would suspect death would mean nothing at all. No more than a video game character you've been playing dying, utterly meaningless. 

Because mastery of all of aspects of oneself requires decades of hardcore spiritual practice, and even then, you'll probably fall short.

It's not as simple as you want it to be. The mind is a relentless beast and it will not be tamed easily. A single awakening event will not be enough. The real work only begins then.

See my video on The 10 Ox Herding Pictures where this is explained.

[Sick Boy]

On 6/16/2019 at 7:35 PM, SunnyNewDay said:

Some say he was full of love and compassion for those torturing him and all of humanity as he died.

Some teachers aren't as far along as we would like to believe. Also, that doesn't make their teaching useless. I think that's why it's important to not defend, idolize or speculate about teachers. How far along is superfluous. It's about following and cultivating our intuition and treating what works for ourselves. The guru is ourselves, not someone else, so it doesn't matter if someone is only partially awoken or truly purified and enlightened. 

 

Yeah, totally agree on that.

PS: There should be a +1 Like button on this forum to show I liked a comment without making this unuseful post

[Lynnel]

7 hours ago, Sick Boy said:

Yeah, totally agree on that.

PS: There should be a +1 Like button on this forum to show I liked a comment without making this unuseful post

We had that at some point. Then we had a huge debate on why we should stop having reputation points. Then we stopped having reputation points and everything got relatively better.

[The Blind Sage]

On 15/06/2019 at 8:26 AM, Leo Gura said:

@Paulus Amadeus

This is significant, but also keep in mind that this is just one case study, and people can be very different, especially when it comes to health issues.

Awakened people can have health complications and even mental issues or energetic issues or shadow. Do not expect them to be impervious to stress, and under enough stress even an awakened person should be expected to crack at some point.

Again, a lot of this confusion is caused by having overly simplistic and binary notions of awakening/liberation, where you guys think that it's total and there is zero suffering and you are a Terminator. That's a very cartoonish understanding of awakening.

It is not clear what the cause of Martin's issues are. So don't jump to hasty conclusions.

Let's monitor his case and see how things turn out for him and what larger lessons his situation holds, if any.

It seems like this might be part of his spiritual path. This might be his way of purifying himself even further to reach deeper levels of self-mastery. Or it could be some rare health condition. It's hard to say.

So...Does anyone know how Marty's doing? There's not many long term users of 5-meo to observe so this situation is a pretty big deal.

[fridjonk]

@The Blind Sage He's doing pretty well, he gets some sleep each night now and is enjoying his life with his family. 

My friend has contacts with him. 

[The Blind Sage]

29 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

@The Blind Sage He's doing pretty well, he gets some sleep each night now and is enjoying his life with his family. 

My friend has contacts with him. 

fucken dank <3
good for him.

That's reassuring news for people using psychedelics as a path i suppose.