Martin Ball can’t sleep anymore

[joeyi99]

 

 

 

 

 

1

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Even when Christ was nailed to the cross he said, "Father, why have you forsaken me?" This was a very human response to a horrific situation. And I'm sure he suffered deeply.

 

Has anyone perfected this path if even Christ could not?

[Inliytened1]

@Nahm thats why i was saying that whatever your perspective is. Is literally what reality becomes.  Its really amazing.   

[Gili Trawangan]

4 minutes ago, joeyi99 said:

Has anyone perfected this path if even Christ could not?

Are you trying to imply that it's possible to suffer the horrors and torture that Jesus suffered without being even bothered by it? That's insane...

[Curiousobserver]

Psychedelics alone can never make you enlightened, they simply open up doors for which you have to walk through yourself. They show you your truest and fullest potential and who and what you are at a core level but if you keep going back to the psychedelic instead of living the new "realized" state, you could end up deluding oneself even further than you began.  Allow the nature of randomness to occur when working with psychedelics and plant medicines, if it comes from the mind or the emotions then it is not a wise or natural calling. By keeping up spiritual practice, your level of awareness should be high enough to be able to discern where the calling is actually coming from. I am seeing patterns in many individuals today getting caught up in this loop and suffering "energetically" from such acts, your energetically overstimulating yourself.

Alan Watts said it the best: Once you get the message, Hang up the phone. Keep it as rare and as random and as of a natural calling as possible, when you live this way, everything will be of most clear and understanding and those times when you do reunite with the plant teacher once again, it will be like a divine marriage, full of clarity, amazement and perfect synchronicity!

[Arhattobe]

@joeyi99 Buddha, and Christ after his symbolic crucifixion. 

@Inliytened1 Your belief is not relevant. You just don’t understand the post awakening process or the mechanics of awakening. Like why it happens. 

[Nahm]

@Inliytened1 Thanks. Is it possible, there is awareness, aware of thoughts which convincingly imply a duality of awareness, a separate or “small self” and “big self” duality? That the thoughts about, don’t constitute a second or dual awareness in actuality, but rather the thoughts are the very same consciousness, convincing in appearance. This may be a subtle discard of “Mind” (conceptual) in realization of knowing being (non conceptual / nothing to know / actuality of no mind).  

Sounds like you’re saying matter or form, is a product of Mind, an actual separation; a deviation from recognition of self in and as appearance / consciousness inherently. 

13 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

The formless is the collapse of all form into pure isness which is what you are. 

If the formless is the collapse of all form, that implies formless needs form, and needs all form to collapse, for formlessness. Seems the other way, so to speak. The “form” being only the formless, in actuality, and the collapse being a thought - an appearance of none other than the very same formless, an implication of form, rather than a second awareness, or actual form which actually collapses.  Formless needing nothing, not even knowing “needing”, but knowing thoughts, perceptions, and sensations, in actuality, as self (the same awareness, aware of). 

This seems like a subtle backing, a variation on the “God needs humans to know God” philosophy. If that is the actuality, then you would not actually know what I am, sans awareness of thoughts about me, perceptions of me, and sensations “in reaction to” me, with never an actuality that me present. 

[Inliytened1]

@Arhattobe Can you describe the post awakening process then? I'm open ears.

[Nahm]

36 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Nahm thats why i was saying that whatever your perspective is. Is literally what reality becomes.  Its really amazing.   

It could be the case that the actuality is awareness of thought & perception, from which a perceiver, a thing perceived, and therefore a perspective, are derived, but are never an actuality. But that would reveal there is no perspective, and no thing becoming, but rather the appearance of becoming, and the opportunity for recognition of what never becomes. 

[Inliytened1]

@Nahm sounds like you are describing the collapse of the perceiver into pure being..ultimate bliss and mystical shift into formlessness...ego death.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Arhattobe]

@Inliytened1 I have talked about it a bit here. I’m pretty tired now. If people really want to hear it. If a few people ask I can make a detailed post about it.

Dont want to spend the effort for a few people just to be like “yeah, but who is it that progresses” or some nonesense

[Salvijus]

@Inliytened1

Arhattobe talked about this like a hundred times. If your ears were truely open you would've gotten it long time ago

 

 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Salvijus

[Inliytened1]

@Arhattobe oh no thats fine i totally understand.   

[Inliytened1]

@Salvijus no i seriously haven't seen his posts on it...I've only been a member since November of 2018.

[SunnyNewDay]

I think a lot of this discussion boils down to terminology. It doesn't seem like anyone can even agree upon what "enlightenment" is or "awakening", "salvation" "nirvana" etc. Is it possible to even clearly define it? 

Some are under the impression it's a complete paradigm shift or level of awareness. Others say it has to do with all release of emotional attachment. 

On 6/15/2019 at 1:21 PM, AlwaysBeNice said:

This is a good example of how Awakening is ultimately part of a grace-controlled reality, and not a materialistic equation of 'having done X retreats or X psychedelic amount, and now I have it', no, deep humble embodied desire to surrender, being utterly self-less and loving and consistent practice are required.

Not that M. Ball, was not innocent or genuine in his journey, but possibly a bit naive and childish, and thus unconsciously also still a little ego-centric about it, he also used to have a half-baked materialistic presumption, which would fit this 'chemically induced enlightenment'. 

So he had a lot of deep experiences through 5-MeO, then had a permanent shift afterwards, talked about his enlightenment (fair enough, it was a genuine awakening right), but then was hit by the mere simplicity and depth that would be reached normally in meditation and going into the deeper consciousness through the gate of sleep.

That terrified him, it was a glimpse of deep awakening beyond his self-induced routine, and was or is still left a wreck because of it.

.

Yet Ramana among others talk about always being awake, God conscious, even in the deepest mode of sleep: http://sri-ramana-maharshi.blogspot.com/2008/05/true-nature-of-sleep.html

---

I know a teacher here in Holland whom experienced something similar, he had spend a lot of time on this journey, and at some point he was really good at self-induced meditation and creating 'blissful' states and whatnot, he started teaching, yet he was actually addicted to his meditation states, was not deeply awakened, and had a strong subtle spiritual ego, until some almost spiritual death event would overtake him,

and he was left in suicidal panic, despair and depression for quite some time,

and a lot of shame probably, because he proclaimed himself to be an enlightened teacher already,

imagine how painful that must be, trying to be a light to bring people home, to the ultimate, yet yourself losing faith in it.

Later it brought him to a deeper surrender and true enlightenment/awakening in his own words now, Ad Oostendorp is his name.

Could you explain what "grace controlled" reality means?

 

[Arhattobe]

It really doesn’t. 

 & : ) @Inliytened1

[Nahm]

@Inliytened1 No. Perhaps another day. Much love ♥️

[Inliytened1]

@Nahm ***hugs*** 

[SunnyNewDay]

Listening to the podcast and really feel for the guy. You can tell he is on a journey and still always growing. We all are. 

[Inliytened1]

9 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Inliytened1 Thanks. Is it possible, there is awareness, aware of thoughts which convincingly imply a duality of awareness, a separate or “small self” and “big self” duality? That the thoughts about, don’t constitute a second or dual awareness in actuality, but rather the thoughts are the very same consciousness, convincing in appearance. This may be a subtle discard of “Mind” (conceptual) in realization of knowing being (non conceptual / nothing to know / actuality of no mind).  

Sounds like you’re saying matter or form, is a product of Mind, an actual separation; a deviation from recognition of self in and as appearance / consciousness inherently. 

If the formless is the collapse of all form, that implies formless needs form, and needs all form to collapse, for formlessness. Seems the other way, so to speak. The “form” being only the formless, in actuality, and the collapse being a thought - an appearance of none other than the very same formless, an implication of form, rather than a second awareness, or actual form which actually collapses.  Formless needing nothing, not even knowing “needing”, but knowing thoughts, perceptions, and sensations, in actuality, as self (the same awareness, aware of). 

 

Sorry just saw this.  Thats exactly right.  It is One so it collapses in both directions.  Formlessness is itself, so in order to be itself it collapses into Form.  So you get the perceiver - which is ultimately an illusion since its substance is nothing.   So the perceiver has coopted Being or formlessness.  The collapse back into Being is the dissolution of the perceiver into its purest form - the formless  or pure potential, where the perceiver was a particular possibility.   This is mysticism or eniightenment in which the perceiver dissolves and God reveals Absolutes to itself.  The perceiver was the relative.

Also The present moment absent of thought is pure consciousness or the formless.  The form is imagination and concept.  

 

[Sick Boy]

13 hours ago, Arhattobe said:

Before he was aware he was “god”. The so. Or god. Yet it was not total. Craving existed. Thirst did as well. Defilements and so on.

Maybe he "losed" his awakening state temporarily under a heavy and long distress.

I didn't know that Christ said those painful words, feelsbadman.jpg.

I thought he died in perfect equanimity or something like that.

Like that vietnamese monk who burned himself to death.