Martin Ball can’t sleep anymore

[Forestluv]

@john23 @DrewNows I’ve had on and off insomnia issues for many years. Prior to any psychedelics. I have an active mind and I’m a light sleeper. 

Psychedelics amplify my insomnia and I’ve had to plan accordingly when using them. 

[Arhattobe]

@DrewNows True awakening is the eradication of all defilements.  True progress is ridding oneself of baggage in a stable and healthy manner.

Extreme mystical states, and the highs of awakening pass. Psychedelics just give you insights, but if your the same person with the same issues you will misunderstand, and pervert them because of all the issues you have. 

They also have a lot of drawbacks. 

They Can trigger schizophrenic tendencies, amplify insomnia as seen in Martin and seretonin, among a whole host of issues that can be very problematic.

when you do them regularly you are essentially burning out your nervous system. It is a terrible idea.

[Leo Gura]

There are many different ways to do psychedelics. They don't have to burn out anything. There are gentle ways of doing them.

And to say that psychedelics only give insights is just false and shows a lack of experience with using them.

Martin did not even do a lot of 5-MeO. I've done more trips than him at this point.

I was watching an interview with a guy who did 600 DMT trips. Now that's a lot of trips.

If you want to do a fair comparison, let's bring up all the cases of people who became depressed, suicidal, had insomnia, or got attacked by demons from intense meditation or yoga. 1000s of such cases are easily found.

Spiritual work is messy, period. Do not single out psychedelics here as if all other paths are a cake walk and free of problems.

We just don't know what is going on with Martin. We need to wait and see how things go for him.

If Martin finally concludes that psychedelics caused his insomnia, then that will be an importnat point to acknowledge and take into account. Although even in that case, it's still just one case.

[DrewNows]

@Serotoninluv perhaps psychs increase “existential angst” 

 

[Arhattobe]

@Leo Gura

Spiritual work is certainly messy so are the people attracted to it. Me included.

 Kundalini, energetic activations and awakenings as a whole can certainly cause one to be hit with a dose of reality that at times can result in anything from psychosis to depression and suicidality. In fact unless you’ve been through very dark nights of the soul you will not see the futility of your effort and will therefor remain lost in mind creation. 

 

Yet. Kundalini, awakening and natural activations are purposeful. With rhyme and reason in their own way. You retain some sense of sobriety to deal with the issues at hand and your system has time to get used to the energetic inflow and increase.

 

With psychedelics you are forcing your body and mind to withstand a level of energy it is not prepared for. With a mind that is not ready for what it will see, full of defilements that will pervert and distort all that’s seen. For example you see crazy things and experience crazy things regularly yet your baseline is not awake according to yourself.

 

All of this is problematic. Asides from all this psychedelics magnify ones blind side as well the positive effects it is reported to have. I say all this based on many samples and my understanding of the human energetic system. 

 

I’ll also add the extreme nature of the symptoms are also a thing Ive seen with psychedelics. Martins insomnia is extreme, my own and other people I know that suffered backlashes from regular psych use also had extreme symptoms.

 

At the end of the day come to your own conclusions. Just sharing my perspective.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Arhattobe

[Esoteric]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Martin did not even do a lot of 5-MeO. I've done more trips than him at this point.

@Leo Gura In a lecture Martin did he says from 2009-2016 he did 3-5 sessions a week. That's a lot.

 

33:30

Edited June 15, 2019 by Esoteric
Correcting error

[Leo Gura]

@Esoteric I specifically asked him how many trips it took him to have his awakening and it was not a lot. Not as many as you mention above.

Then he started being a shaman. Which is what he describes in that vid above. And yeah, I stand corrected, seems like he did a lot of it at that point as part of his shaman gig.

So he did much more than me then in total.

I did not realize he was smoking it in every shaman session.

Also, taking on other people's bad energy could be very problematic if that's what his shamanism involved.

[Leo Gura]

To be clear, Martin's method of using 5-MeO is very different from mine.

I don't endorse blasting oneself with 5-MeO to the point of energetic overload as that can be needlessly traumatic.

Moderate dosing is important in my book.

[ElvisN]

@Leo Gura  If it is true that the body gains healing ability with awakening then why is Martin Ball experiencing this?

Why would you experience physical illness?

[Esoteric]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

To be clear, Martin's method of using 5-MeO is very different from mine.

I don't endorse blasting oneself with 5-MeO to the point of energetic overload as that can be needlessly traumatic.

Moderate dosing is important in my book.

Yes. Energy is no joke and I haven't even done 5-meo-dmt. Awhile ago you mentioned you felt electricity entering your fingertips. I had this happen to me on an aya ceremony. I literally could not make a fist and my hands were raised to the sky. Just trying to surrender completely. It was the first time I KNEW divinity was real.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, ElvisN said:

@Leo Gura  If it is true that the body gains healing ability with awakening then why is Martin Ball experiencing this?

Why would you experience physical illness?

It doesn't necessarily gain any ability. Any siddhis gained are an independent factor.

Awakening alone does not clear up all energetic issues, or shadow, or ego, or emotional issues, or bad habits. Nor is it development. So there are many factors herw besides awakening.

All of this I have stressed in the past.

Many awakened teachers have weird personality flaws and shadow issues and pathologies.

Awakening does not mean there cannot be a pathology. As history shows.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

Yes. Energy is no joke and I haven't even done 5-meo-dmt. Awhile ago you mentioned you felt electricity entering your fingertips. I had this happen to me on an aya ceremony. I literally could not make a fist and my hands were raised to the sky. Just trying to surrender completely. It was the first time I KNEW divinity was real.

That was on an early highest dosed snorted trip: 30mg. It was truamatic and felt unhealthy so I dialed my doses back a lot and invented the plugging method, which is much smoother.

I have not felt unhealthy energetic overload from plugging about 30 moderate doses. The trips were still very strong, but smooth and healthy feeling.

[Arhattobe]

Full enlightenment rids you of all defilements and the energetic and physical issues that are a consequence of their existence.

Simple stream entry does is what your describing and tbh it shouldn’t be thought of as enlightenment. Just awakening. The path after is long and hard.

[tsuki]

@Arhattobe Leo hasn't seen through his own genuine humility yet.

[Arhattobe]

@tsuki  What do you mean?

[tsuki]

@Arhattobe You had this conversation before.
He acts as if he's shooting for stream entry, but in truth he's close to the whole shabang.

It's only clear in hindsight.

[Arhattobe]

Pretty sure you don’t understand what I mean by the end of defilements. 

[tsuki]

@Arhattobe I bet you are. I know nothing. ?

[Enlightenment]

3 hours ago, Arhattobe said:

True awakening is the eradication of all defilements.

No such thing as complete eradication of all defilements. I've listened to people who were practicing meditation/Buddhism for decades with many intense retreats and they still experience aversion. So you claim there are people who can stop meditating completely, wait until their concentration diminishes to baseline levels and then if I put a hot stove on this person's leg he/she would be aversion free and have a completely relaxed body with no muscle contractions as what happens with aversion in the body?

I would be very skeptical to claims about no aversion

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Martin did not even do a lot of 5-MeO. I've done more trips than him at this point.

No

 

[Arhattobe]

@Enlightenment There are also people that meditate for decades but don’t awaken. Don’t understand your point.

“Eradication of defilements is not possible I’ve never met any”...

A lot of mystical traditions equate the eradication of defilements with full enlightenment. Theravada Buddhism being the most sober, and if you have been awake for a number of years and you pay close attention to the energetic process within you this becomes very clear.