Martin Ball can’t sleep anymore

[Paulus Amadeus]

Hi! I used to post stuff on the forum sometimes, but haven’t for a long time. Read the posts on this forum regularly.

 

2 weeks ago I had my first encounter with 5meo-dmt, and so I have been very interested in listening to Leo and Martin Ball since. 

And I just found out Martin Ball has been having some horrible sleeping problems, that have completely derailed him. 

Here is the podcast on which he discusses it: https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/entheogenic/episodes/2019-05-11T09_19_02-07_00

 

he doesn’t describe himself as enlightened anymore and he seems to be in a very bad spot.

 

so I would urge Leo and anyone who is taking a lot of 5meo-dmt to listen to this podcast. 

The 5meo-dmt road to enlightenment is pbviously totally new, so this seems significant to me.  

 

[whoareyou]

@Paulus Amadeus  His sleeping problems don't have anything to do with 5-MEO. His sleeping problems began all the way in his childhood. And doctors confirmed that to him as well.

Edited June 14, 2019 by whoareyou

[Paulus Amadeus]

hmm I wouldn’t be to sure of that. Plus the fact that he doesn’t seem to be enlightened anymore. Seems like reason for some concern

[outlandish]

lol @whoareyou you typed the exact same reply as I was making. 

What he said.

[whoareyou]

3 minutes ago, Paulus Amadeus said:

hmm I wouldn’t be to sure of that. Plus the fact that he doesn’t seem to be enlightened anymore. Seems like reason for some concern

If you followed his situation closely, you would know that his sleeping problems go all the way back to childhood. He met with different professionals and they confirmed that to him as well. He had them long before using any psychedelics, but things escalated the last 2 years - the years when he did NO psychedelics at all.

Any "enlightened" person would be like this, if they had such a problem. Enlightened people are not immune to suffering from such issues, especially that have messed up neurochemistry 

Edited June 14, 2019 by whoareyou

[iTommy]

This is a complicated issue. As others have already stated, those problems seemed to exist prior to his psychedelic use. Yet when going into "spiritual" and psychedelic territory, certain practices and substances can add to those problems, bringing those more to the conscious surface. If that is true in his case, I can't say. Kundalini and energy stuff can cause sleepless nights/insomnia in some people, psychedelics can cause kudalini/energy to become noticeable, thus creating issues for some people.

 

[Paulus Amadeus]

so enlightened people can get a serious health issue and be right back in their ego?

[whoareyou]

3 minutes ago, Paulus Amadeus said:

so enlightened people can get a serious health issue and be right back in their ego?

How do you define "enlightenment"? And how can you even know if someone is "enlightened"? 

According to LEO there are different facets of it, and it's not arbitrary. 

[Paulus Amadeus]

@whoareyou I define enlightenment as being free from the ego, which he claimed he was because of 5meo-dmt. And now he says he is not anymore. Am I crazy for thinking this is significant?

[Leo Gura]

@Paulus Amadeus

This is significant, but also keep in mind that this is just one case study, and people can be very different, especially when it comes to health issues.

Awakened people can have health complications and even mental issues or energetic issues or shadow. Do not expect them to be impervious to stress, and under enough stress even an awakened person should be expected to crack at some point.

Again, a lot of this confusion is caused by having overly simplistic and binary notions of awakening/liberation, where you guys think that it's total and there is zero suffering and you are a Terminator. That's a very cartoonish understanding of awakening.

It is not clear what the cause of Martin's issues are. So don't jump to hasty conclusions.

Let's monitor his case and see how things turn out for him and what larger lessons his situation holds, if any.

It seems like this might be part of his spiritual path. This might be his way of purifying himself even further to reach deeper levels of self-mastery. Or it could be some rare health condition. It's hard to say.

[Arhattobe]

If your too invested in something you won’t really want to see evidence to the contrary. 

Dont expect people on this forum to be like “oh yes, good point” 

I’ve said for a long time Martin isn’t enlightened, and that constant 5 meo use is a terrible idea. Made a post months ago saying just that.

Just takes a while to see the aftermath of copious amounts of psychedelics sometimes.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2019 by Arhattobe

[Nahm]

@Paulus Amadeus Oh yes, good point. 

[Jkris]

@Arhattobe Please start a thread on renounciation - Sense pleasures,desires,likes,dislikes,praise and insult - equanimity etc and share your insights.Or please suggest a good book on this.

By the way which Buddhist tradition you are following.

[Arhattobe]

That’s a lot of stuff, but sure if I get to it : ) 

& Theravada Buddhism. Read the whole dhamma section. Then check out the renunciation and drawback section to get you started, and understand Theravada a little bit.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/index.html

book wise. Don’t know many that are that good. Puredhamma is also good website. Chore to read through though. Lot of old terms

Edited June 15, 2019 by Arhattobe

[Forestluv]

@Paulus Amadeus Good point. Caution and listening to one’s body is wise with this substance. It aint like smokin’ a doobie with giggles and munchies. 

[Arhattobe]

@Serotoninluv Yep. Martin the man that was the sole case study for 5 memos supposed power to enlighten a person and retain such “enlightenment” was just doing it wrong. Not listening to his body. 

(Sarcasm) 

Edited June 15, 2019 by Arhattobe

[Ry4n]

Am I the only one with the bright idea that he could literally just smoke weed? Considering how bad his condition has gotten? 

[Forestluv]

@Arhattobe I don’t know Martin, yet I’m thinking positive thoughts for him and his family and I hope he recovers soon. I’ve had a few bouts with insomnia. Not as severe as Martin’s, yet my insomnia caused me a fair amount of pain and suffering. I’ve only averaged three hours of sleep per night this week. It’s awful. 

[john23]

@Serotoninluv  You had problems with sleep before using 5-meo-dmt?

Edited June 15, 2019 by john23

[DrewNows]

People don’t realize simply having an awakening doesn’t mean all your subconscious baggage is going to magically disappear...unfortunately, to me, this means psychs won’t help things that haven’t been integrated/processed once the ego returns. 

@Serotoninluv has your insomnia been most of your life? I bet you have a pretty active mind. Curious if you’ve found any sort of create outlets? 

Edit: not sure why I make the assumption your mind is super active haha or even ask about your creativity. I know Martin does creative practices like music. Anyways wish you the best! 

Edited June 15, 2019 by DrewNows