Seeing in oneself the need to be right

[Zigzag Idiot]

Is one's insecurity the motor fuel for the need to be right?

In the relative world where we are responsible for our own intellectual and emotional balance, is there wisdom in sometimes placing the good above the True.  

Is there a lack of 'holding space' for others on the forum?

[tsuki]

It does not matter whether the motor runs forwards ('being right'), or backwards ('holding space').
The "I" is implicit in "other".

[mandyjw]

There's no need to be right unless there exists in oneself a belief that it is possible to be wrong. Out of that belief insecurity is born, then the need to be right arises from that insecurity. 

[Neorez]

@mandyjw I haven't look at it that way, very good insight. I'm struggling as well with always wanting to be right. It fulfills many needs and I'm just starting to unravel it. 

[LastThursday]

Some people are natural mis-matchers.

When they see or hear a thing, they naturally want to find ways in which they can be different from that, or see it from a different viewpoint than other people do. This is more of a cognitive style than a need to be Right per se.

So look out for those types as well as the insecure ones. Maybe you're one yourself?

[Zigzag Idiot]

@LastThursday  Maybe like a contrarian investor? 

 

[LastThursday]

@Zigzag Idiot that's the idea. Except mis-matchers don't do it consciously - it's not a strategy they deploy, more of an impulse to be different all the time.

My point is that, when you're interacting with a mis-matcher, it can seem like they're always disagreeing with you and trying to impose their 'right' views. But in actual fact they're just doing what comes naturally to them.

 

[Dan502]

@LastThursday interesting.

 

[Bill W]

6 hours ago, LastThursday said:

@Zigzag Idiot that's the idea. Except mis-matchers don't do it consciously - it's not a strategy they deploy, more of an impulse to be different all the time.

My point is that, when you're interacting with a mis-matcher, it can seem like they're always disagreeing with you and trying to impose their 'right' views. But in actual fact they're just doing what comes naturally to them.

 

I also think that people who want to be right are just doing what comes naturally to them a lot of the time. When a behaviour becomes a habit, that's what happens, whether you are a mis-matcher or a person who has to be right. 

I think this is a key issue, that behaviour becomes natural for people. It feels natural so it stops being questioned. Well, at it's most problematic level it stops being questioned, as there is nothing to question (which is unfortunate for the people on the receiving end of the behaviour!). Probably unfortunate for the person themselves as well, as inevitably they will experience suffering, but not realise why. 

I propose that the level of needing to be right often correlates with that persons perceived level of self-investment in their viewpoint. This is perhaps where personal bias comes in and contaminates open-mindedness and humility. Nobody really wants to admit they are personally biased when trying to "right" the other person! 

Also, it makes me think of.....confidence in a particular stance is often a reflection of personality type that is repackaged in an attempt to display wisdom (edit: acting the big shot doesn't make you right, but some people assume if the message is presented assertively and without question, it must be correct). This is how abuse can happen. Many people are highly skilled in doing this. The use of language where a person writes or speaks as if what they are saying has 0% chance of being wrong. They are writing about a highly subjective viewpoint that is dressed up as fact. Basically, I've invested all this time in my viewpoint and it feels like I've cracked it and stumbled onto the truth, therefore it must be the truth for everyone and I will educate the masses.

I am personally biased in that I believe Jesus, Buddha etc may have had a good point, but I do not believe we have 100's of Jesus' and Buddha's on this forum, but reading some of the posts you'd think this place is a magnet for the Jesus Christ's and Buddha's of our generation. 

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Bill W
Going OTT with the post.

[LastThursday]

1 hour ago, Bill W said:

but I do not believe we have 100's of Jesus' and Buddha's on this forum,

Personally I don't think there are ANY Jesus's or Buddha's on this forum. But collectively, we can pull each other up by the spirtual bootstraps.

2 hours ago, Bill W said:

I propose that the level of needing to be right often correlates with that persons perceived level of self-investment in their viewpoint. This is perhaps where personal bias comes in and contaminates open-mindedness and humility. Nobody really wants to admit they are personally biased when trying to "right" the other person! 

That is spot on.

Of course that's only half the story. The other half is how the person receiving the 'rightness' behaves in response, if they are triggered and show it, then they also also guilty of bad behaviour, or of some further 'inner work' that needs to be done.

2 hours ago, Bill W said:

I think this is a key issue, that behaviour becomes natural for people. It feels natural so it stops being questioned.

In my opinion variety and flexibility of behaviour is what we should all strive for - sometimes 'right', sometimes 'humble', sometimes 'rude', sometimes 'polite' and so on. Just like a diet, too much of one thing is bad for you in the long run. Many people (me included) are too narrow and set in their behaviours and this causes them many many problems in their lives.

But flexibility of behaviour involves a lot of experimentation, fearlessness, self knowledge and high consciousness. All that work! Phew.

 

 

[MsNobody]

Reminds me of a quote from Camus:

"The need to be right is the sign of a vulgar mind"

[Joseph Maynor]

Wow.  This is such a great topic.  I'm looking forward to reading the responses here.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Hellspeed]

On 13.06.2019 at 2:37 PM, Zigzag Idiot said:

Is one's insecurity the motor fuel for the need to be right?

In the relative world where we are responsible for our own intellectual and emotional balance, is there wisdom in sometimes placing the good above the True.  

Is there a lack of 'holding space' for others on the forum?

The need to be right, comes from your own fiction reality.

[Zigzag Idiot]

5 hours ago, LastThursday said:

In my opinion variety and flexibility of behaviour is what we should all strive for - sometimes 'right', sometimes 'humble', sometimes 'rude', sometimes 'polite' and so on. Just like a diet, too much of one thing is bad for you in the long run.

@LastThursday  I love what you articulated here! I took it as pointing towards the integration of our multiplicity, culminating in what some traditions call the Pearl beyond Price. A richly diverse Being.  Not just Enlightened, but also Realized. Your post made me think of Jean Hustons last talk at the SAND conference. In it she speaks of us being "myriad minded" 

It starts slow but she ends it with some inspirational thunder,,,

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

@MsNobody  I like the quote. It speaks of finer energies.

I also feel the truth of it.

The need to be right all the time. This relentless tendency of mine I've observed in my Inquiry.

My sanity has been helped by the discovery in the relief that's always there to be had by a return to beginners mind,,,,, In spite of that I still 'forget' and catch myself too late. It's a slow build, for me.

 

[DrewNows]

The "need to be right" is something i see as a defense mechanism we adopt at an early age. When i finally realized it in myself, I can recall a dispute i was having with my younger sister and once she challenged me expecting a reaction i was fully aware and the mechanism didn't happen. This completely baffled her and she simply looked at me speechless as i completely steered the conversation in another direction. 

The insecurity creates the lack of space one needs to see themselves and their need to be right

On 6/13/2019 at 6:37 AM, Zigzag Idiot said:

Is there a lack of 'holding space' for others on the forum?

maybe a lack of holding space for ourselves on the forum 

Edited June 15, 2019 by DrewNows

[Zigzag Idiot]

@Joseph Maynor  Thanks for chiming in. I feel the forum would be more balanced if we could all be a little more confessional of our weak spots. With hopefully a more mindful and spacious atmosphere developing. Where just the confession of a shortcoming is allowed to sit in quiet with some kind of subtle acknowledgements from others who are also doing the Work.

@Hellspeed So true.

[Zigzag Idiot]

3 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

The "need to be right" is something i see as a defense mechanism we adopt at an early age. When i finally realized it in myself, I can recall a dispute i was having with my younger sister and once she challenged me expecting a reaction i was fully aware and the mechanism didn't happen. This completely baffled her and she simply looked at me speechless as i completely steered the conversation in another direction. 

maybe a lack of holding space for ourselves on the forum 

YEAH!! That's rich! 

To me, that's a good example of what's referred to as the state of Self Remembering in the Fourth Way.  Or it sounds like it to me. There's an actual feel of more awareness and presence. Self Remembering with a capital S. ?

[DrewNows]

@Zigzag Idiot haha perhaps! 

How about “the need to help or fix others” as this is something I struggle with. Seeing the faults in others or taking other people’s burdens upon myself if they speak of it 

[Zigzag Idiot]

@DrewNows

Because you have the same major influence of Essence type as me. 

Congradulations! ??‍♂️You're a Saturn type mixed with another type of Essence,,,,?

Essence characteristics  we can't change. We can take the sharp edges off it though. It's the other part of our nature - personality- or ego/false personality where change can be effected. I say this to give a frame of reference to this concept out of the Fourth Way. It's not true unless you can apply it and it's useful for you,,,,

Below is a quote from a good book on Essence (Endocrine) types which elaborates my foolishness.

 

I extracted and pasted the sentence description within the paragraph of Saturns, just below. Take heart, Abraham Lincoln was a Saturn type.

"If we are Saturns we cannot stop trying to control others always for their own good--- no matter how strenuously they object

When we are able to recognize types and predict the characteristic reactions, we find that this information is liberating, both as it applies to ourselves and as it helps us to understand others. Once we know that virtually all limitations, weakness and shortcomings are not things for which we can be blamed, most of us feel the lifting of guilt that we have carried for most of our lives. If we are Lunars we cannot be outgoing and emotionally demonstrative, no matter how much others urge us to be and how much we may want to please them. If we are Saturns we cannot stop trying to control others--- always for their own good--- no matter how strenuously they object. If we are Venusians we cannot be aggressively ambitious no matter how much our mothers want us to be and how much we may love our mothers. If we are an emotionally centered mercurial and find it impossible to engage in repetitive tasks day after day, word processing in an isolated cubicle, or putting shingles on roofs, then we should begin to understand how hard it is for a moving centered Martial to experience his own emotions, much less express them effectively. ,,,,,

 

Edited June 15, 2019 by Zigzag Idiot