Manipulation to acquire results = Setting yourself up for failure?

[7thLetter]

In any area of our lives, would we all agree that using heavy manipulation or overcommiting yourself to acquire an internal or external result, results in failure in some way?

For example, I definitely see it with the use of steroids and building muscle. Steroids are a way to manipulate muscle growth in the short-term, but over the long-term if you stopped taking them you would go back to your original muscle size before you starting taking them. It also leads to death with consistent use. I don’t see it being sustainable to use steroids one-time, gaining that much muscle in a short period of time, and being able to maintain that muscle over the long-run.

How about with your work? Overcommitment leads to burnout over the long-term? I feel that people in SD Stage Orange tend to use a lot of manipulation in order to achieve significant results. Why is that? I guess it can be a useful tool in some cases. For example using manipulation to acquire a sale from a one-time customer.

In relationships, manipulation leads to failure.

I probably answered my own question at this point but I’m interested in everyone’s thoughts.

Edited June 12, 2019 by 7thLetter

[Knock]

Marketing manipulates weaknesses in the human psyche, with great success. Would you count that as failure?

[7thLetter]

@Knock But that's not intentional. I'm talking about intentionally using manipulation to acquire a result.

[Leo Gura]

Manipulation is survival. Good luck surviving without it.

[CreamCat]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Manipulation is survival. Good luck surviving without it.

Resisting and overcoming manipulation is also survival.

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

overcoming manipulation

Overcoming manipulation is itself manipulation.

But there is such a thing as non-manipulation. And it is not survival.

[7thLetter]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Manipulation is survival. Good luck surviving without it.

I mean heavy/extreme, or higher degrees of manipulation in this thread. With manipulation being survival, I can definitely see that we do it on a smaller scale, but heavy manipulation is unnecessary.

[Dan502]

@7thLetter I don't know, why are you using extreme manipulation, what do you mean by that? How do you feel about it? What're the results? What're the consequences? Do you need to do it? Why do you need to do it? How long do you need to do it for? To what extent do you need to do it?

Etc.

[7thLetter]

@Dan502 I'm not talking about myself, just asking a question. Steroids is an example of "extreme manipulation." I sort of already explained what I'm talking about in the thread.

Simply put, "is over-committing yourself to acquire a result, setting yourself up for failure?" I'm sorry but I'm not sure how that's not clear.

Let's say you wanted to achieve success in business, so you basically manipulate yourself or over-commit to working on this business for 80 hours a week. Over the long-run you're pretty much setting yourself up for failure. And this is one of the reasons why I'm asking this question. Is it a good idea to over-commit and work long hours to try to achieve success as fast as possible? Probably not.

Or over-committing yourself to grow muscles, going to the gym for 5 hours a day, definitely will result in failure.

 

[Leo Gura]

@7thLetter Much more conscious forms of manipulation are of course possible, and the whole point of our work here.

Actualized.org is a collection of more consciousness self-manipulation strategies which ultimately point the way to transcending manipulation.

[Shin]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@7thLetter Much more conscious forms of manipulation are of course possible, and the whole point of our work here.

As long as you don't push that nuclear weapon button with a smile.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Shin said:

As long as you don't push that nuclear weapon button with a smile.

If the button is gonna be pushed, might as well smile

[Rilles]

54 minutes ago, Shin said:

As long as you don't push that nuclear weapon button with a smile.

We should detonate a bomb that spreads clouds of 5-MeO all over the globe. Instant saving of the planet.

[CreamCat]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Overcoming manipulation is itself manipulation.

Overcoming manipulation can mean overcoming manipulative SNS notifications. In this case, is it self-manipulation because I turn off SNS notifications?

Or, can you remain perfectly calm in the midst of a barrage of email notification sounds from your smartphone?

Edited June 13, 2019 by CreamCat

[tenta]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If the button is gonna be pushed, might as well smile

 

But you need to go one step further and be one of the people smiling while they're hit by the nuclear strike.

[Dan502]

"is over-committing yourself to acquire a result, setting yourself up for failure?" 

It's not clear because we don't know how you're over-committing yourself, in what way, why, or what constitutes failure.

Should you work 80 hours a week or go to the gym 5 hours a day? If you want to, sure. Maybe you'll fail. Maybe you'll succeed. It might be risky. You might enjoy it for a while. I can't tell.

Start by working for 35 hours a week and going to the gym twice a week and if you like it, do more. I'd probably delete this response if I could as I'm not sure if it's helpful but this was what I thought.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Dan502

[Hello from Russia]

Your understanding of manipulation is very shallow. What you fail to see is that it is everywhere. You can't do anything without it. It is like breathing. When you stop manipulating you stop "living"and stop surviving. You can survive with very little manipulation if you decide to live a monk lifestyle. But at this point you literally stop living if living terms mean affecting the world. As a monk or full blown yogi in a cave you usually do very little to affect the world (unless you consciously do effort to manipulate more)

[7thLetter]

@Dan502 @Hello from Russia Both of you are missing the point of what I’m trying to say here.. I’ve made it so clear and no one here is answering the question.

@Hello from Russia If you read my previous posts I’m talking about higher degrees of manipulation here. What you’re saying just sounds like its been taken from Leo’s recent video on survival as if it were your own insight.

 

To everyone else, nevermind. I’ve already figured out myself. Thanks for the help.

[Shin]

Never had have more results than when I stopped trying to manipulate anything.

Life is funny this way

?

[Michael569]

On 13/06/2019 at 9:57 AM, Rilles said:

We should detonate a bomb that spreads clouds of 5-MeO all over the globe. Instant saving of the planet.

inherently that would be a manipulation on its own   Orange will vaccinate the whole population and push its ideology of pandemic, Green will cut hands for using plastic and push its agenda of global warming and Turquoise will contaminate waters with 5-MEO and talk about saving humanity....whats the difference?