The N,N-DMT Mega-Thread

[Flyboy]

@Marten  Yup, that's smart!  Maybe you can go as high as 40 or 45, but a breakthrough is possible as low as 25 if smoked really efficiently.  I did back to back doses of 50mg, and the first one didn't hit at all.  I figured I burned it... The second time I nailed the vaping and I suspect I got around 75mg in one hit.  It was LITERAL DEATH.  The elves all shouted hurray, you did it, you finished the game.  Everything exploded in fireworks and I was torn to shreds.  I entered the void and my ego was shattered like a thousand hammers breaking glass into tiny pieces.

At this point in my work, I was NOT READY for this kind of death, didn't know how to let go fully, and it happened so fast that I had no idea what was going on.  It felt like I was in the void for an eternity.  I didn't know my name, that I had taken a drug, or that I was a human.

When I landed, I felt like a beaten dog.  I literally had a kind of PTSD from this event for a long time.  All of this is to say that being careful and taking it slow is really crucial for your health and your journey.

[Leo Gura]

That DMT sure is sneaky. It likes to hide out in the pipe, waiting for you to reload, ready to blindside you:

WHAAAAAM!!!

[Marten]

@Flyboy Holy crap! Thanks for sharing. So you're saying that a break through at 30 mg is easier to handle than a break through at 75 mg, but that it's never the less a break through and a lot easier on your system, so to do it gradually. This is gold, thanks for making the point crystal clear.

@Leo Gura YES, holy fuck... I am quite scared thinking about doing it again, will stick to 30 mg for now. Do you ever get used to it? From what you've been saying Leo it sounds like the fear will be there for the whole journey.

So far I've been very gradual in my dosages tripping on mushrooms and LSD the past five months. I haven't had any really bad trips. There's been some scares and I had some PTSD for a couple of days after my face melted on LSD and spooked me. But then I had a *everything is Love* break through which more than healed any past tripping trauma. DMT is scary in a different way. It just feels so damn powerful, unpredictable. Maybe I will do some more LSD before continuing with DMT. Will give it some thought.

[Leo Gura]

27 minutes ago, Marten said:

Do you ever get used to it? From what you've been saying Leo it sounds like the fear will be there for the whole journey.

Psychedelics are so powerful that you will never get used to giant doses. You're not going to out-macho psychedelics. They will always kick your ass if you take too much. So be careful. Infinite Consciousness is not a thing to be trifled with.

I find high doses of DMT downright terrifying. It's too much consciousness for a human to handle.

[Marten]

@Leo Gura  Wow... I can't wrap my head around what you went through to do 5-meo-dmt for 30 days consecutively. Or how Kilindi Lyi did 30 g of mushrooms. Seems like it's a mix of expert level experience and extreme courage.

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Marten said:

@Leo Gura  Wow... I can't wrap my head around what you went through to do 5-meo-dmt for 30 days consecutively. Or how Kilindi Lyi did 30 g of mushrooms. Seems like it's a mix of expert level experience and extreme courage.

5-MeO-DMT is not as challenging for me as DMT or salvia.

Although by the 25th day of 5-MeO, things got pretty hairy and I was starting to lose my mind.

[Marten]

@Leo Gura Lol, maybe I will start working with 5-meo instead of NN-DMT Plugging does seem more gentle than vaping. Is plugging more precise when it comes to dosing? Sometimes I get a bit too excited, these conversations help me be more grounded. Also reminding myself that I am already perfect, this is it, nowhere else to go, it is all Love...

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Marten said:

@Leo Gura Lol, maybe I will start working with 5-meo instead of NN-DMT Plugging does seem more gentle than vaping. Is plugging more precise when it comes to dosing? Sometimes I get a bit too excited, these conversations help me be more grounded. Also reminding myself that I am already perfect, this is it, nowhere else to go, it is all Love...

Plugging is far more precise than vaping. You never know if you vaporized or inhaled the full dose. With plugging you get the full thing every time.

[Marten]

@Leo Gura Oh, sweet! I'm feeling that it would be good to have another LSD trip next to get some direction on all this... DMT has been really intense...

[peanutspathtotruth]

Something to share here, because I've been experimenting with NN for about 2 years now. I repeatedly stumbled upon the fact that most veterans in the DMT Nexus said that they find changa to be far superior to freebase for several reasons. So before that, I would always use the freebase in my GVG. And I know what you mean Leo, it seems very ineffective and unnecessarily complicated - until one learns how to vape it. Then, it is pretty simple and reliable, especially with the liquid pad. 

Then I switched to changa. Oh man... I understand why so many swear by it. 
1. It's sooo easy to smoke, you know what you get. It's almost impossible, with a bit of care, not to burn any substance. Bong, GVG, normal pipe, whatever.
2. When you're careful (as we all should be), it's really hard to go too far. I find changa to be much more grounded in the sense that there is less potential terror and confusion. It feels more earthy and magical to me, not like a jet flying in your face.
3. Changa seems more lucid than freebase. Like in a lucid dream, it's a bit easier to stay fully present. Also, I retain much more memory of what happened and what I encountered. Freebase often times (but not always), feels so ephemeral, that when I return, I forget most of it within a few minutes.

So for those of you who haven't tried, I highly recommend changa. Of course, using harmalas is similar to that, but I find changa way more convenient. Just vape it or smoke it. 

[Leo Gura]

@peanutspathtotruth But with changa you're inhaling the smoke of some junk herb?? I don't see the appeal of that.

I'd rather take a pure clean hit of DMT via a simple oil pipe. Oil pipe works excellent. Yes, it can be fucking intense if you dose too high. So dose low. You can always redose and keep a steady high going.

[peanutspathtotruth]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@peanutspathtotruth But with changa you're inhaling the smoke of some junk herb?? I don't see the appeal of that.

I'd rather take a pure clean hit of DMT via a simple oil pipe. Oil pipe works excellent. Yes, it can be fucking intense if you dose too high. So dose low. You can always redose and keep a steady high going.

Well, not if you vape it. I vaped through GVG, works excellent. I also used the bong, also works great, but way more harsh.

To be honest, yes smoking would not be optimal for the lungs - but this is a rather small price to pay for realizing God imo. But yeah, I prefer vaping which is not really different from vaping the freebase.

Edited July 9, 2020 by peanutspathtotruth

[peanutspathtotruth]

Spontaneous trip-report:

I was surprised to find a tiny rest of freebase today (I haven't really tripped for months, made a big break).
So I just took it. It was about 30mg in total, split up into three journeys via GVG. I wanted to go back in lightly, carefully.

This was more of a dive into my psychological outset regarding consciousness work. I started out having a lot of fear taking the first hit. Really quickly I realized what I'm afraid of is pain, of being insulted and beaten up and judged. And inquiring into that, I saw how I'm actually afraid of my own superego voices. There is nobody else there who could hurt "me", and there is not even someone to be hurt, even though it feels like that. And then I saw clearly how what is true would never hurt anything, not even the ego, for it is all itself. The one wanting the ego to die is the ego itself. And that wish is not genuine. It is just another way of trying to prove itself, to do it right.

More thoughts like "I should go deeper", "Why am I not getting IT"?, and "I should not think right now" appeared. I asked WHY? Who is saying that? Listening to these thoughts, I "saw" spiritual teachers appear, as if they were demanding that. Of course nobody does so but some self invented voices. So I realized all fear and all demands coming only from myself. I dropped it all and let the heart guide me further, and I saw how pressing my face into my own shit is just God wanting me to see that it's okay - it's okay to accept that what I thought I am is an illusion. It's okay to see clearly that an illusion can not be real. It felt like an internal family gathering, and all internal voices agreed - we might have seen things wrong all this time. We don't have to fight anything, for we are trying to protect something that's not even there. We don't know what's actually there. But we have no choice but to die into that, to let everything else go. Very beautiful.

[Corpus]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@peanutspathtotruth But with changa you're inhaling the smoke of some junk herb?? I don't see the appeal of that.

I'd rather take a pure clean hit of DMT via a simple oil pipe. Oil pipe works excellent. Yes, it can be fucking intense if you dose too high. So dose low. You can always redose and keep a steady high going.

With a GVG and spot-on method, you can vape harmala freebase alkaloids with freebase DMT. Aesthetically like changa but a smaller volume of vapor inhaled compared to blitzing leaf material.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Corpus

[peanutspathtotruth]

1 minute ago, Corpus said:

With a GVG and spot-on method, you can vape harmala freebase alkaloids with freebase DMT. Aesthetically like changa but a smaller volume of vapor inhaled compared to blitzing leaf material.

You mean something like Syrian Rue extract 10:1? That's the powder I have here. That would be amazing!

[Corpus]

2 minutes ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

You mean something like Syrian Rue extract 10:1? That's the powder I have here. That would be amazing!

Without knowing how the extraction was done I cannot say if you have a salt or freebase; the most commonly used extractions do result in freebase though.

Assuming you do have freebase harmala alkaloids (AND note the assumption), 10mg of this and 25mg freebase DMT in one inhalation via the GVG will impress you.  It adds a note to the taste which is distinct but pleasant. 

[peanutspathtotruth]

9 minutes ago, Corpus said:

Without knowing how the extraction was done I cannot say if you have a salt or freebase; the most commonly used extractions do result in freebase though.

Assuming you do have freebase harmala alkaloids (AND note the assumption), 10mg of this and 25mg freebase DMT in one inhalation via the GVG will impress you.  It adds a note to the taste which is distinct but pleasant. 

Thank you for the recommendation. I will maybe try this out when I have more freebase. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

Hey guys and gals. Found this Changa-trip report by a dude on reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/comments/7hrnmn/my_first_ever_huge_dose_of_dmt_changa/

I'll copy paste it here for your pleasure. Very interesting read. Gotta get my own hands om some quality changa + a water bong soon. A water bong is prefered when smoking change (says the pros on DMT-nexus), while the GVG-pipe is the-go-to-method for pure DMT. But the veterans on DMT-nexus all say changa > DMT in terms of depth, groundedness and clarity in the experience.

Anyway here it s:
 

Quote

My first ever huge dose of DMT (Changa), instantaneous breakthrough, 'Broken Reality', lasted for 40 minutes!
 

The Experience:

I recently partook in a Changa ceremony with a few friends, I was first to try this batch of the Changa which I sourced through a friend. The process of creating the Changa was complicated and the exact amount of ingredient was by no means accurate. There were apparently ‘5 doses’ in total in this batch each containing an estimated ~35mg/50mg of DMT. I had previously only experienced low Changa doses, “sub-breakthrough”, very relaxing, physical and short lived (6-10min) experiences with very little profound insight. So after some meditation, sharing and intention setting, I put on some music and was took my place in our nest of covers and pillows to have my experience. The set and setting were ideal, the room was dimly lit by a lamp and candles, white sage incense was burning and the nest we had created was so comfortable and warm.

I grabbed the bong, took a few long deep breaths and hit the mixture with the lighter, letting it ignite and allowing it burn naturally. I took the entire hit in one and the moment I opened my mouth to exhale, there was a dramatic, immediate shift in the way I was perceiving reality. As I exhaled the lungful of smoke, the tone of my breath shifted in tones down the scale from it’s normal tone down to a very deep tone an then persisted very loudly and became very similar to the om chant. There was this sudden upward shift in energy, a bolt of energy up my spine reduced me of my physical form and shifted my perception into what could only be translated as; a 360 degree spherical point of awareness. I did not ‘leave’ the location I was at, I didn’t travel or fly, reality just simply shifted. Simultaneously, each single point in the material world around me lit up as infinitely large/small spheres in a combination of all the colours and each point in space shot beams of light and energy outward in every single direction to infinity. This left me with the inability to ‘see’, my surroundings dissolved into what I can only describe as a linear, 5th dimensional grid like structure, every single point in my immediate space contained infinite potential energy was all intricately interconnected with each other through these beams of light and energy. I was able to traverse this reality with my awareness, delving into each point of space resulted in me returning to where I started. At this point I lost connection to the ‘real world’, my friend said that I gracefully laid back into the nest. I experienced complete and utter transcendence of my ego. I lost all reference points. I wasn’t ‘seeing’ anything, there was just pure awareness, it was an awareness of my entire existence, all that ever was, will be and is, everywhere and nowhere, everything and nothing all existed in this formless, timeless pool of awareness. I had nothing to ‘contemplate’, or ‘experience’. I simply was for eternity. As part of my cognitive ability and ego returned, I had a feeling that I had officially left the reality that I knew, I had achieved what I was looking to achieve, part of the higher reality, the source. I was/A presence was communicating that ‘this is not really what you want to achieve, the higher reality is chaotic and conscious awareness cannot exist here, your reality is the haven, Nirvarna, samadhi.’ I wanted to be back to a place where I can be still, where I can witness order born from the chaos but it didn’t seem apparent that I could ever go back, I could not fully surrender to the possibility that I had left my reality, there was some kind of tension, It was as though the reality could not be stable with my awareness there.

I had no reference of time but out of the experience I had my physical form again, I opened my eyes but could still not see the reality that I knew so well, the grid like energy field persisted, confusion took a hold, I thought that I should be returning to baseline by now, I sat still, moving my head around, trying to see. What remained of my ego at this point had a sudden sense that ‘reality at its fundamental level was revealing itself’ and the first thought I was able to process was ‘I have broken reality’. I tried so hard to ‘see’ the room I was in before, but as I looked around there was still no form, just a field of energy, I buried my head into the nest and tried once more to surrender to the experience, I remember reaching my arms out and grabbing my friends so tightly, I felt like the roots of a tree, reaching out for some connection to the earth. Slowly I began to remember, I was aware of me moving my body, I sat up and tried to speak but I had no concept of language, the more I tried to ‘see’, the reality of the room that I knew before the experience, began to take form out of the energy. The structure of the room began to take form and then the lighting came back, the objects and my friends in the room began to take form out of this infinite field of energy. The energy rearranged itself to form the reality, I remember uttering the words ‘guys’, and it feeling so alien, no reference, I then said to my friends; ‘I need some reference points’, they told me the time, date and my location, it was all still alien. I said, ‘What is going on!?, I think I’ve broken reality’. I stood up and tried so dearly to ‘see’ my normal reality’. I was terrified. I walked toward the door in the room, not to leave, but to see if I could open the door. I needed some earthly grounding. I opened the door, leant on the door, took a deep exhale and walked back to the nest. I sat down, I said my own name, my location and that I had just taken a bong hit of DMT. A rush of euphoria, I laughed, and for the next few moments I truly embraced the state of being. I realised I was the true creator of my reality, I sat cross legged on the floor with a straight spine and held my hands out infront of me. I was stunned by what I was seeing, my arms and hands were created entirely of this 'light energy' and there was no immediate separation between me and the space around me, I was just a denser collection of the light energy in comparison to the space around me. I took some deep breaths and felt life rushing into my body. I felt so incredibly powerful, the power that comes with the realisation that you are the sole creator of your life journey. I buried my head into the nest for a moment, and surrendered to my emotions, I felt something new, a combination of all the emotions. I sat up, the experience still fully immersive and said, "how long ago did I take the bong hit?" My friend replied, "30 Minutes at the very least". I became really confused, ‘How is this lasting so long’, I thought, ‘Is this Changa different?’, ‘Have I blasted off into some ayahuasca experience that is going to last 6 hours?’.

My experience of reality was still shifted and it appeared to me that my friends were sat stunned, gazing at me. Surely they are going to begin growing concerned about my wellbeing, I thought. They looked like statues made of light, I said the words ‘wow’, and ‘holy shit’, repeatedly as the realisation of what I had just experienced settled in, broken up with intermittent laughter. Another 5-10 minutes passed and the visual experience began to settle, I could finally see the room begin as it was with worldly textures and my friends as they were once more. I had a huge weight lifted off my shoulders, I was so grateful to be alive, back in the waking reality, I felt like I had to be back here to complete my life journey. I was at the same time so incredibly humbled, stunned, satisfied and so grateful for the profound and unfathomable glimpse into what I believe to be the fundamental reality/divine source/‘god’/Infinity/My 'self'. I was on the brink of tears, but they manifested as laughter, laughter because that is all we can do when we realise the profundity of the entire universe.

Length of experience:

So the experience itself lasted from 40-50 minutes, I have no idea why this is. I can only guess that I had a clump of the changa that was highly concentrated with a lot of DMT and MAOI/Harmalas. I would love to know if anyone else has had similar, longer lasting experiences. My friends had 1/3rd of the dose I had afterwards, I was not willing to let them have the same amount as me, and their experiences lasted only 6-10 minutes.

My insight from the experience:

Life–here, now, on planet earth is the most precious form of reality we could ever hope to exist in and perhaps the only place that conscious awareness has managed to be manifest. There is so much more going on in this universe than we could ever hope to imagine and/or understand. Our ability on this earth to simply be, is the only reason we need to exist. We already have everything that we could ever need and that our ability to simply experience ourselves is the most fundamental purpose of life. The universe, out of all its infinite chaos has dedicated a pocket in all of its eternal potential to create a simple, ordered and beautiful reality whereby it can experience a portion of itself temporarily–in the form of the human experience. I genuinely now do not have any fear of death, I cannot explain why this is and I did not go into the experience looking for this realisation, but it is a fortunate outcome. I seemed to understand the entire universe for the merest of moments and genuinely feel privileged and lucky to be alive in a time where I have the majority of Maslow's needs fulfilled and am excited to continue my journey of self-actualisation. The most beautiful memories were experiencing order being born out of chaos as I returned to baseline. I realised that the pure non-dualistic reality is highly unstable and that it requires a dualistic reality within itself to be stable, find balance and for a conscious feedback loop (self/other) to be possible.

As my ego and sense of self dissolved, It was as though the tiny aperture (me/dualistic reality) that the universe sees itself through, expanded. It could no longer see itself through the dualistic tiny eyes of me, but the wider eyes of the non-dual whole. The more my ego dissolved, the more the universe could see of itself. Like a feedback loop, eventually the loop became too fast and intense until it collapsed on itself where I found my awareness bathing in infinity for eternity.

I often get the sense that when people have DMT experiences, they are laid back, with their eyes closed and having their experience within themselves. My experience was different in that it was a complete combination of the internal and external universes, I was sat up and even stood up at times with my eyes wide open, interacting with this 'new' reality. Also, whenever I hear about DMT experiences I feel that people struggle to 'bring anything back' or remember anything because it's so fast but that is where my experience is different, I had eternity to contemplate and experience everything and it's all so vivid and clear within me still even now.

Post-Experience Integration:

When I am not occupied by work or other people, I find myself in a complete and utter state of bliss. So very calm and content, with no sudden desires, simply flowing through whatever may come. I close my eyes and I can see so clearly what I saw during my experience and feel exactly what I did. I am being brought to tears fairly often, not tears of sadness, tears of awe and gratitude. Such a huge amount of appreciation for being a simple, mundane human being on planet earth with a simple and still life where we can simply experience ourselves. Plenty of laughter too.

A good image to represent the way I experienced reality is this piece of art by Alex Grey:  

EDIT: I'd like to make it very clear that I would not recommend every person that read this post find the courage to take a huge hit of DMT. Every single person has a completely unique life journey and therefore this experience can never be reexperienced. I am a lucky person in that I had a great upbringing, have a healthy and privileged lifestyle and consider myself to be generally mentally, emotionally and physically healthy. I feel like there would be many people that would really struggle to integrate the experience that I was so lucky to experience. (There is also no real need to take DMT, In already did, found all the answers that you are looking for and shared them with you ?)

 

[peanutspathtotruth]

@WaveInTheOcean Amazing trip report. Thanks for sharing  

[okulele]

On 6/13/2019 at 10:38 AM, okulele said:

I smoked changa about 10 times. Changa is not pure N,N-DMT, it's a mix of herbs, but it contains the substance also.

Every time I smoked it, I had the classic DMT fractal vision, but only for a few moments. The important stuff is what would come after.

Today's trip:

Today I hit the greatest breakthrough with changa! I smoked it in a bubbler and managed to take the entire 100mg in two hits.

Right after and during smoking, fractal vision came on very strong. I managed to put down the bubbler safely What happened next is very hard to put into words, or mind for that matter. Actually, impossible. Literally. I'll try anyway, maybe someone will find it interesting and try it for themselves.

First there was Nothingness. No time, no space, no existence. From there the Grand Design was reveled. It showed how this reality we live in is made. It comes from that Nothingess and manifests itself through grosser and grosser forms. I perceived these as separate beings which governed the creation. It goes down, down, down... all the way to this place! To my life!

The moment I came back all the way to my life was very confusing. The mind, which was gone for the entire revealing of the Design, came back and was very confused. It took me a few moments to realize what happened. That I was in my room, had a body, smoked DMT.

I was down on the floor. What followed was a 20-30 minute flood of intellectual insight along with symetrical body movements, humming, toning and releasing. Along with this, deep spontaneous pledges and prayers for full surrender were made to the Absolute. It was beautiful.

Never before have I seen the Design quite like this. That is my main take away: it is all a design! It's a fiction! Me believing that I and the world is real is absolutely absurd and really, impossible! It's a joke! It's impossible!

The human existence is both so beautiful and so tragic at the same time.

I also realized, that when Leo says that it cannot be grasped, or that you cannot understand it etc., that is so. Literally! It cannot! But, the mind is usually just not willing to open up fully to that kind of possibility. It thinks it gets the full ramifications, but it doesn't.

 

What I described is really nothing. It doesn't even resemble what the experience was. Oh well, I tried...

This illustrates very well what I experienced back then (the Grand Design):

Edited September 23, 2020 by okulele