Spiritual Doubt

[Preetom]

8 hours ago, SoonHei said:

yupp

this right here is a gem.

 

looking at the whole process... your own "path" so to speak.. you can see, it is this ego/character which you are operating as... the body+mind doing the practices, watching videos.. reading books, retreats etc. 

 

and then also the key message that you aren't this body+mind... so now watching the above story of the last 4 years.. you have this character trying to end itself... which is impossible... 

what ends the character is the seeing that YOU are wherever YOU were at the start of the process... as you aren't the body+mind.. you have always been free..

 

you are simply the knowing of that story. ever knowing, ever now.

Thank you for beautifully elaborating on this.

On that final statement, I can see why many disagreement lies on what is enlightenment as that word gets thrown around so often.

That discovery, understanding and conviction that one is pure knowing is so vital. But IMO thats only the beginning of real journey towards enlightenment.

This is where neo advaita and commonplace flowery spiritual teaching falls short by stopping at this stage. They try to make a seeker enlightened by blasting them with non dual quotes and feel good spiritual ideas like it is all one, there is nothing left to do, you are god, all is love, no one is going no where etc. I notice this same tendency a lot in this forum where "enlightened masters" write as if their words will permanently awaken the seeker right then and there. In other words, Advaita turns into religion or philosophy. It makes me cringe ?

At this point, arises this pernicious problem. There is still an ego mind. And now it tries to believe all the non dual quotes and tries to follow and emulate a non dual enlightenment standard in the name of 'integration' and 'embodiment', as if this ego will one day shine as all powerful God made out of love.

But what i found out from research is the exact opposite. After having glimpses and being fairly convinced that one is pure knowing, the next thing to do is nidhidhyasana(constant absorption).

Basically from this point on, one knows exactly what one is shooting for and knows what to ignore. This is where real meditation begins. Basically, one needs to absorb oneself more and more in this ''pure knowing/consciousness'' by any means (sell inquiry or psychedelic) and stay as little time as possible functioning as the ego. This is where psychedelic falls short, it is excellent to instantly show you what you are existentially but it can't help with absorption in that truth. Because staying 10 hours everyday on psychedelics will be overkill on your system. This is where 'harmless' deep meditation and being sessions come in.

This is the original meaning of 'integretion'. It is NOT an ego trying to embody and living up to non dual truth, trying to be in the present, trying to be all loving and compassionate. But rather it is about slowly erasing the entire system of ego/mind/character by simply depriving them of attention, as ones attention is constantly absorbed in pure knowing.

This is real spiritual integration. Its not consciousness that expands more and more, goes higher and higher to include everything. Rather, it is EVERYTHING that gets reduced and sunk into consciousness once and for all, only to find out this was always the case. The self literally dies as ego and gets reborn as Reality. The center of gravity called I has shifted from ego to Reality. And that attunement is done through absorption, not by books or listening to neo advaita. And traditionally speaking, only that is the original definition of enlightenment. Anything before that is simply just ego still deluding itself by pretending.

God got punked by God 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Preetom

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, Preetom said:

Thank you for beautifully elaborating on this.

On that final statement, I can see why many disagreement lies on what is enlightenment as that word gets thrown around so often.

That discovery, understanding and conviction that one is pure knowing is so vital. But IMO thats only the beginning of real journey towards enlightenment.

This is where neo advaita and commonplace flowery spiritual teaching falls short by stopping at this stage. They try to make a seeker enlightened by blasting them with non dual quotes and feel good spiritual ideas like it is all one, there is nothing left to do, you are god, all is love, no one is going no where etc. I notice this same tendency a lot in this forum where "enlightened masters" write as if their words will permanently awaken the seeker right then and there. In other words, Advaita turns into religion or philosophy. It makes me cringe ?

At this point, arises this pernicious problem. There is still an ego mind. And now it tries to believe all the non dual quotes and tries to follow and emulate a non dual enlightenment standard in the name of 'integration' and 'embodiment', as if this ego will one day shine as all powerful God made out of love.

But what i found out from research is the exact opposite. After having glimpses and being fairly convinced that one is pure knowing, the next thing to do is nidhidhyasana(constant absorption).

Basically from this point on, one knows exactly what one is shooting for and knows what to ignore. This is where real meditation begins. Basically, one needs to absorb oneself more and more in this ''pure knowing/consciousness'' by any means (sell inquiry or psychedelic) and stay as little time as possible functioning as the ego. This is where psychedelic falls short, it is excellent to instantly show you what you are existentially but it can't help with absorption in that truth. Because staying 10 hours everyday on psychedelics will be overkill on your system. This is where 'harmless' deep meditation and being sessions come in.

This is the original meaning of 'integretion'. It is NOT an ego trying to embody and living up to non dual truth, trying to be in the present, trying to be all loving and compassionate. But rather it is about slowly erasing the entire system of ego/mind/character by simply depriving them of attention, as ones attention is constantly absorbed in pure knowing.

This is real spiritual integration. Its not consciousness that expands more and more, goes higher and higher to include everything. Rather, it is EVERYTHING that gets reduced and sunk into consciousness once and for all, only to find out this was always the case. The self literally dies as ego and gets reborn as Reality. The center of gravity called I has shifted from ego to Reality. And that attunement is done through absorption, not by books or listening to neo advaita. And traditionally speaking, only that is the original definition of enlightenment. Anything before that is simply just ego still deluding itself by pretending.

God got punked by God 

 

 

Dude this is a master piece of an explanation ??

[Preetom]

13 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Dude this is a master piece of an explanation ??

Thank you 

[WelcometoReality]

@Pure Imagination To me spirituality is all about what's true. That's all. If you can't see god and what's true for you is the physical world you that's where you start. If you make spirituality the quest to find god you'll probably search your whole life without finding it.

Can you see what's true and what's delusion? And do you sometimes believe that delusion is true? Your thoughts about how the world should or shouldn't be for example.

 

What have your spiritual journey been about?

[Umar_uk]

17 hours ago, Pure Imagination said:

 

So question time - what should I do? I don’t feel passionate about spirituality right now at all. What have y’all done if/when you have gone through a doubt phase like this?

Just remember to Keep Calm and Carry One...I mean On.

You don't need to do anything, you are already being carried, you are the one and only... You are ON right now, no need to turn it on...why not just relax and enjoy the free ride... There is no thing starting or finishing this...you have no other choice than to just be here ...although you do have a choice to not be here, if you believe there is a you here in the first place...but then even not being here is still being here ...what's the difference? how would you know the difference? all you have ever known is being here, so there's no difference between being here and not being here, it's all the same one stateless state...And yes, there is no thing here, no thing is real, and all we can do is to look on in detachment, that's if you want to stay sane that is. This is free advice. So don't worry now be happy.

If you want to know what death is like, just remember the time you existed before you were born, that's usually a comfort for a restless mind, knowing that you get that little rest bite of your finite life.. you are a unique finite flash of light popped aware self shining between two eternal lights...sounds poetic doesn't it...but it's all you. There's no escape.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Umar_uk

[mandyjw]

@Preetom

You must be both a rebel and a devotee simultaneously. The Civil war in your mind will free you from slavery, even though the slave isn't the one who is fighting in the war. 

[SoonHei]

9 hours ago, Preetom said:

one knows exactly what one is shooting for and knows what to ignore. This is where real meditation begins. Basically, one needs to absorb oneself more and more in this ''pure knowing/consciousness'' by any means (sell inquiry or psychedelic) and stay as little time as possible functioning as the ego.

boom. right on! @Preetom well put

 

and all the while being careful and watchful...

and as long as one knows quite well and accurately what one is "shooting for" then it only gets easier and easier

[Pure Imagination]

13 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

What type of techniques have you been practicing currently'?

Shadow work, concentration, and contemplative journaling.

 

13 hours ago, Preetom said:

Instead become more interested in the one that had all experiences and yet feels like remaining the same. Try to watch and investigate that.

I'll continue to hack away at it, but I can't help but think that concept is a wild goose chase right now.

[Pure Imagination]

11 hours ago, Preetom said:

This is where neo advaita and commonplace flowery spiritual teaching falls short by stopping at this stage. They try to make a seeker enlightened by blasting them with non dual quotes and feel good spiritual ideas like it is all one, there is nothing left to do, you are god, all is love, no one is going no where etc.

Isn't it already true that we are all enlightened? I feel like "trying" to become enlightened is trying to manipulate the content of our experience rather than investigating our supposed true nature of nothingness. Thank you for the rest of the post though, there's a lot of gems in what you said and helps clarify a lot for me.

 

8 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

Can you see what's true and what's delusion? And do you sometimes believe that delusion is true? Your thoughts about how the world should or shouldn't be for example.

 

What have your spiritual journey been about?

I do have a basic understanding that this current experience isn't physical like it seems to be. I do frequently fall back into the illusion when I get consumed in mind; it happens more times than others. So far the primary focus of my journey has been embodying complete authenticity. When I'm fully present, I hesitate less to authentically express how I feel rather than the ego coming in saying I have to people please instead.

 

 

[Pure Imagination]

3 hours ago, Umar_uk said:

all you have ever known is being here, so there's no difference between being here and not being here, it's all the same one stateless state

Then why is the supposed physical world even here? All I know is true is the content I'm observing right now. Why should I assume there's a stateless state to go along with it?

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, SoonHei said:

and as long as one knows quite well and accurately what one is "shooting for" then it only gets easier and easier

I have a basic understanding of what I'm shooting for - I have experiences aspects of it (or so I think). Perhaps I may be more deluded about what I am looking for, because I'm failing to find it at all lately.

[Inliytened1]

13 minutes ago, Pure Imagination said:

Isn't it already true that we are all enlightened? I feel like "trying" to become enlightened is trying to manipulate the content of our experience rather than investigating our supposed true nature of nothingness. .

You already enlightened in the sense that you are God.  But your not enlightened in the sense that youre not directly conscious that you're God.  So enlightenment has two different meanings there.

But yes the ego can twist enlightenment pursuit into its own identity.  So you have do the practices such as self inquiry, yoga, and meditation just simply with an open mind as to where it might lead.  Don't think about becoming enlightened just be in the moment when doing them and maybe listen to your favorite teacher when doing them.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Inliytened1

[SoonHei]

31 minutes ago, Pure Imagination said:

I have a basic understanding of what I'm shooting for - I have experiences aspects of it (or so I think). Perhaps I may be more deluded about what I am looking for, because I'm failing to find it at all lately.

@Pure Imagination  it is very easy to be deluded . but once you see how you were deluded, you don't fall for that same trick again. so there's some good that comes out of it as well that way

and keep in mind... you're not going to "find it" as you wrote above... that "I'm failing to find it at all lately." 

the one who is searching for his glasses while wearing and looking thru them... does not "find" them... he simply remembers/recognizes that they do not need finding as they are always here.

 

also now, step back and witness this one who has the basic understanding of what he is shooting for  

that is not you. because YOU neither have understanding and nor are you shooting for anything  

[Pure Imagination]

37 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You already enlightened in the sense that you are God.  But your not enlightened in the sense that youre not directly conscious that you're God.  So enlightenment has two different meanings there.

Who is the I that is not directly conscious of God? Deceptive thoughts that aren't actually pointing to a real self?

38 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Don't think about becoming enlightened just be in the moment when doing them and maybe listen to your favorite teacher when doing them.

I like this a lot. Dropping the concept of becoming enlightened resonates and stops the spiritual ego in its tracks.

 

10 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

it is very easy to be deluded . but once you see how you were deluded, you don't fall for that same trick again. so there's some good that comes out of it as well that way

I guess that's the name of the game! Feeling bad about being deluded is just more false self  

11 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

also now, step back and witness this one who has the basic understanding of what he is shooting for  

that is not you. because YOU neither have understanding and nor are you shooting for anything  

Thank you, this really resonates with me! I'll work on detaching from the content of my experience (or rather detach from the one who thinks he needs to be detached  ) Thank you so much for your numerous replies; it's amazing how valuable it is to hear other people's perspectives. It helps a lot with getting unstuck  

[Inliytened1]

@Pure Imagination Who is the I that is not directly conscious of God? Deceptive thoughts that aren't actually pointing to a real self?

when you discover you are God you will be doing that as God discovering himself.  Thats why i say it's God enlightening himself.  The ego dies and is reborn.

When you as the ego are reborn you will be able to see through the illusion of yourself as the ego and see yourself as God.  That is ego transcendence.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Inliytened1

[SoonHei]

@Pure Imagination thank you for being you !

in the process of answering things, many of my own delusions come to light  

you will always find this to be true as well. try to read someone else's post with the knowing that it is simply their ego talking and you can see the solution to the core issue

 

of course the answer isn't always YOU ARE NOT THE BODY/MIND

but it will allow you to see where you are having similar drawbacks

 

It is all one after all.

you are being helped by yourself and i am helping myself and in processes helping myself

<3

 

[Hellspeed]

Don't go the path of Leo, or you will hate your life. Go simply breath meditation alone.

[TDLH]

I was walking my dog this morning after putting out a post on the forum and a delightful thought/past experience came into focus.  I would like to share it with you.  About twenty years ago I was heading north of Toronto at night on Christmas eve to my parent’s house with my 3-year-old daughter, my girl friend, and her son of approximately 9 years of age.  We had just gotten off the main hwy onto a road when we got hit with a heavy snow squall.  I could not make out where the road was, where the shoulder or ditches were, and was blindly driving slowly along on instinct.  Everyone one was scared shitless, especially my girl friends 9-year-old son who was almost at panic state. That is, everyone except for my 3-year-old daughter who, with a smile on her face, held the 9-year-old boys’ hand and said, “Relax Nick, just enjoy the ride”.

The depth of that comforting jester from my daughter really hit home today as I was walking my dog.  Nick had no control of where the Van was taking him, but he had full control on how he could emotional, mentally, physically and spiritually react, not react, allow fear and the unknown to consume him, or “Just relax and enjoy the ride”.

You could also dig deeper and view the inside of the Van as our journey as humans and the world outside the van, the infinite road towards consciousness and enlightenment.  It’s endless and infinite, we were never meant to fully grasp the full depth of God consciousness from the physical realm of matter.  Yes, we can get a taste of it, a glimpse and feeling of nothingness, or God consciousness (for lack of better words) but to fully Be in God consciousness, well the juries not out on that one!  There are more insights that are available from this story, but I leave that for you to explore.

Believe me (Pure Imagination) the work you have been doing the last several years is not for “nothing”, (no pun intended) the insight of my daughter’s statement was never really understood until twenty years later. 

I’m a little bit slow sometimes! LOL

Relax and Enjoy the Ride!

Edited June 12, 2019 by TDLH

[WelcometoReality]

13 hours ago, Pure Imagination said:

I do have a basic understanding that this current experience isn't physical like it seems to be. I do frequently fall back into the illusion when I get consumed in mind; it happens more times than others. So far the primary focus of my journey has been embodying complete authenticity. When I'm fully present, I hesitate less to authentically express how I feel rather than the ego coming in saying I have to people please instead.

Ah then you now that at least part of spirituality is true and I believe that's the doorway to the other things which you haven't experienced yet.

[WelcometoReality]

@Preetom Good explanation. The egoic movement continues after the realization. The journey after is all about letting that movement completely die out. It seems as if most people thinks the journey ends after the realization.

[Preetom]

25 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

@Preetom Good explanation. The egoic movement continues after the realization. The journey after is all about letting that movement completely die out. It seems as if most people thinks the journey ends after the realization.

Yes some people even preach about enlightened ego. Absurd. Reminds me something from Adyashanti

"There are few things more twisted and dangerous than an ego which thinks it is god"

18 hours ago, mandyjw said:

@Preetom

You must be both a rebel and a devotee simultaneously. The Civil war in your mind will free you from slavery, even though the slave isn't the one who is fighting in the war. 

Cutest slave in the world ?