Spiritual Doubt

[Pure Imagination]

This past week or so I’ve started to get pretty doubtful of spirituality. It feels like all of this is one big lie and that we’re all trying to pursue something that isn’t even there. 

I’ve had (so called) mystical experiences in the past - while sober and through psychedelics. But I can’t help but think that all that was just either a drug experience, or my mind playing tricks on me.

Now I’m not saying I’m ready to give up the spiritual path, but I just don’t feel a reason to pursue it right now. What’s the point? All I see in front of me is the seemingly physical world, nothing more nothing less. Where is this apparent God? It sounds just like a fantastical idea to me.

And I know people are gonna say that all this is really real, and that I just have to experience it for myself. Well I don’t find that particularly convincing. I’ve been on this spiritual journey for four years now and I basically feel like the same person as I was when I started. Am I gonna kill another three decades to pursue something that’s not there and get nothing out of it? I would rather not.

So question time - what should I do? I don’t feel passionate about spirituality right now at all. What have y’all done if/when you have gone through a doubt phase like this?

[Aakash]

i just waited a few days to gather my thoughts and emotions about what i really wanted, when i was doubtful 

as people on this forum know already i've tried to leave twice, but have come back always 

and that's just publically stated, i've thought about leaving 100 of times, because its so radical, 

But for me personally, its just something that i have to do

[Truth Addict]

@Pure Imagination Interesting!

Following to see how "enlightened" people will respond.

[Inliytened1]

@Pure Imagination that's your Ego talking you out of spirituality.  The last thing it wants to do is die !! Hahah. Fight back

 

[SoonHei]

Spiritual doubt is what's happening

[Pure Imagination]

1 hour ago, Aakash said:

i just waited a few days to gather my thoughts and emotions about what i really wanted, when i was doubtful 

as people on this forum know already i've tried to leave twice, but have come back always 

and that's just publically stated, i've thought about leaving 100 of times, because its so radical, 

But for me personally, its just something that i have to do

I’ve had that to an extent. I do feel like deep down I can’t leave this path but it can sure be discouraging sometimes...

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Pure Imagination that's your Ego talking you out of spirituality.  The last thing it wants to do is die !! Hahah. Fight back

 

In my experience, fighting the ego creates more ego

1 hour ago, SoonHei said:

Spiritual doubt is what's happening

True, but where do all the fantastical beliefs about God creating the universe come in? I can see what is right here, but why should I assume there’s more than that?

[Anton_Pierre]

@Pure Imagination Research how big reality is.

[Preetom]

9 hours ago, Pure Imagination said:

This past week or so I’ve started to get pretty doubtful of spirituality. It feels like all of this is one big lie and that we’re all trying to pursue something that isn’t even there. 

I’ve had (so called) mystical experiences in the past - while sober and through psychedelics. But I can’t help but think that all that was just either a drug experience, or my mind playing tricks on me.

Now I’m not saying I’m ready to give up the spiritual path, but I just don’t feel a reason to pursue it right now. What’s the point? All I see in front of me is the seemingly physical world, nothing more nothing less. Where is this apparent God? It sounds just like a fantastical idea to me.

And I know people are gonna say that all this is really real, and that I just have to experience it for myself. Well I don’t find that particularly convincing. I’ve been on this spiritual journey for four years now and I basically feel like the same person as I was when I started. Am I gonna kill another three decades to pursue something that’s not there and get nothing out of it? I would rather not.

So question time - what should I do? I don’t feel passionate about spirituality right now at all. What have y’all done if/when you have gone through a doubt phase like this?

Does it ever occur to you that this is exactly what spirituality is supposed to show you?

Years came, years went, doubts came, doubts went, wives came, wives went, ecstasy came, ecstasy went, meditation routine came, routine went, phychedelic high came, high went, god came, god went, fear came, fear went, habits came, habits went, wealth came, wealth went, sadness came, sadness went, conviction came, conviction went,  books came, books went, teachers came, teachers went, videos came, videos went, retreats came, retreats went, plans came, plans went.. So on and so forth...

And yet! After all that, you are still YOU! Same! You didnt move an inch! What the fok? 

What sort of existential sorcery is that? 

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Preetom

[SoonHei]

@Pure Imagination

25 minutes ago, Pure Imagination said:

but why should I assume there’s more than that?

@Pure Imagination the "you" who assumes there is more does so because that is it's function... and in doing of that perpetuates it's existence.

 

YOU are free from all of that already... just your belief is misplaced.

[SoonHei]

12 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Does it ever occur to you that this is exactly what spirituality is supposed to show you?

Years came, years went, doubts came, doubts went, wives came, wives went, ecstasy came, ecstasy went, meditation routine came, routine went, phychedelic high came, high went, god came, god went, fear came, fear went, habits came, habits went, wealth came, wealth went, sadness came, sadness went, conviction came, conviction went,  books came, books went, teachers came, teachers went, videos came, videos went, retreats came, retreats went, plans came, plans went.. So on and so forth...

And yet! After all that, you are still YOU! Same! You didnt move an inch! What the fok? 

What sort of existential mindfuck is that? 

 

yupp

this right here is a gem.

 

looking at the whole process... your own "path" so to speak.. you can see, it is this ego/character which you are operating as... the body+mind doing the practices, watching videos.. reading books, retreats etc. 

 

and then also the key message that you aren't this body+mind... so now watching the above story of the last 4 years.. you have this character trying to end itself... which is impossible... 

what ends the character is the seeing that YOU are wherever YOU were at the start of the process... as you aren't the body+mind.. you have always been free..

 

you are simply the knowing of that story. ever knowing, ever now.

[Inliytened1]

Let me ask you this.  Can you master your emotions and take emotions out of the equation and just Be in meditation for an hour a day? Free of expectation? Can you do that?

[Barna]

Why do you think that spirituality is something extra that you do? 

When you sit down, do you like to think about random stuff, or do you like more to relax your mind and just feel your breath as it gives you life? 

When you want to watch something, do you like to watch some no-brainer action movie, or do you like to listen to deeper talks of your favorite teachers? 

What I'm trying to point out is that you don't have to make any kind of sacrifices for spirituality, you just have to be very sincere with yourself about what you like to spend your time with. If you sincerely don't want to spend your time with "spiritual-spiritual" stuff, then whatever you're choosing to do instead, that's gonna become your spiritual practice, just put your whole heart into it. 

@Pure Imagination cool name btw. My brain cannot read it without singing

[ajasatya]

@Pure Imagination Forget about it. Spiritual inquiry cannot be done without genuine thirst. Let go.

[Nahm]

@Pure Imagination Go do what you want to go do, of course. 

[Leo Gura]

@Pure Imagination More psychedelics. You're still just dabbling and clinging to your old reality.

Quote

I can’t help but think that all that was just either a drug experience, or my mind playing tricks on me.

This entire conversation is just a drug experience and your mind playing tricks on you.

You are hallucinating this conversation with me.

WAKE UP!

[Pure Imagination]

2 hours ago, Preetom said:

Does it ever occur to you that this is exactly what spirituality is supposed to show you?

I know this intellectually, but I’m not sure how watching experiences come and go is somehow supposed to enlighten me.

 

2 hours ago, SoonHei said:

the "you" who assumes there is more does so because that is it's function... and in doing of that perpetuates it's existence

So the solution is seeing through the illusion? Because I’m not seeing anything to see through, just the apparent content that appears as physical reality.

 

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Let me ask you this.  Can you master your emotions and take emotions out of the equation and just Be in meditation for an hour a day? Free of expectation? Can you do that?

I’m very emotionally aware. I’ve done a lot of shadow work integrating past traumas. I’m not great at maintaining habits, but I can meditate for an hour with relative ease. But I’m not seeing how that helps me see through the ego.

[Pure Imagination]

 

2 hours ago, Barna said:

Why do you think that spirituality is something extra that you do? 

When you sit down, do you like to think about random stuff, or do you like more to relax your mind and just feel your breath as it gives you life? 

When you want to watch something, do you like to watch some no-brainer action movie, or do you like to listen to deeper talks of your favorite teachers? 

What I'm trying to point out is that you don't have to make any kind of sacrifices for spirituality, you just have to be very sincere with yourself about what you like to spend your time with. If you sincerely don't want to spend your time with "spiritual-spiritual" stuff, then whatever you're choosing to do instead, that's gonna become your spiritual practice, just put your whole heart into it. 

@Pure Imagination cool name btw. My brain cannot read it without singing

I like the way you are framing spirituality, and that helps me a lot. Honestly I do all the above. If I’m feeling doubtful like I am now, then I usually default to doing random, perhaps low consciousness, stuff I enjoy. Because I don’t see a point in enlightenment work if everything is just going to stay the same anyway. I do have my go-to teachers that I have frequently read/watched. However, I have been trying to be more authentic lately trying to pursue exactly what I want on the deepest level, so I’m glad you brought that up.

And thank you! One of my favorite songs for a variety of reasons 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Pure Imagination

[Pure Imagination]

1 hour ago, ajasatya said:

@Pure Imagination Forget about it. Spiritual inquiry cannot be done without genuine thirst. Let go.

I’m struggling to know what I “should” genuinely thirst for.

 

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@Pure Imagination Go do what you want to go do, of course. 

I even struggle with that sometimes

 

@Leo Gura Funny enough, I have had two high-dose experiences not too long ago (300ug acid, 4.5g mushrooms). Surprisingly they were both a little underwhelming; I was intending on achieving an ego death both times but that did not happen.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

 

This entire conversation is just a drug experience and your mind playing tricks on you.

You are hallucinating this conversation with me.

WAKE UP!

I have no idea what’s true anymore. All I know is I’m sick of chasing something that doesn’t exist.

[Inliytened1]

What type of techniques have you been practicing currently'?

[Preetom]

2 hours ago, Pure Imagination said:

I know this intellectually, but I’m not sure how watching experiences come and go is somehow supposed to enlighten me.

now that you have been noticing that experiences come and go for 4 years, and yet it left 'you' the same, why are you still fascinated with experiences?

You know they are impotent. You know that they never leave a trace on you. So why the hell would you keep on watching these things come and go?

Instead become more interested in the one that had all experiences and yet feels like remaining the same. Try to watch and investigate that.