Awakening to the eternal now does not require drugs or practice to

[Umar_uk]

3 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

@Umar_uk I always agreed they are not the only way. A lot of my insights have derived from just living life despite my initial awakening being drug induced. 

I just know when Leo gives his statements there's often a lot of nuance he might not cover. You could go in forever into the realm of nuance so I didn't think he meant such a statement literally. 

I don't think anybody disagrees with your key premise. I think people are just adding you wouldn't tell somebody to just live life as normal for awakening in a school meant to tell you how to pursue it. It's not an opposition statement its more a statement on practicality in the relative. 

It's quite funny isn't it? The very illusion you are supposed to deconstruct helps you realize it. 

Very nicely said and beautifully written thank you cute looking Shadowraix.  I love the last line in your reply, very true, thank you oh wise cutie pie.

 

Did I just say that!!  Lol

[Shadowraix]

2 minutes ago, Umar_uk said:

Very nicely said and beautifully written thank you cute looking Shadowraix.  I love the last line in your reply, very true, thank you oh wise cutie pie.

 

Did I just say that!!  Lol

You're too kind ?

[Umar_uk]

1 minute ago, Shadowraix said:

You're too kind ?

I'm just reflecting here what's already in you there, else you wouldn't know it.  

 

 

[Umar_uk]

22 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

You sure you aren't adding in the "only" part to build some kind of argument?

 

But when you combine this with the previous statement you can fill in that he doesn't think this is factually the only method. But it is the only active involvements that can be taught. And as stated before, natural awakening isn't a guaranteed thing. This happens to very few people. So this is the only methods for them if they aren't as gifted.

I wasn't adding in the ''ONLY'' part...it was in fact Leo that actually wrote that down himself. It's a problem using the word ONLY..so leo needs to be more careful, I'm just correcting him as a good teacher would...but I don't think he likes being corrected by other teachers.

I agree that the chemicals in phyc's can take you to nirvana that is the nondual self...but I don't know that through my own experience, but on what someone else has told me, namely, via heresy which is not a reliable source... the proof is always in the pudding, excuse the cliche. What one must realise and learn is that you cannot teach another one to become enlightened. Setting up schools for other people to teach them what they already are is the work of the devil..beware of false profits.

I personally wouldn't dream of teaching another one to become what they already are...seriously this message is totally free advice...I don't think Leo likes that truth being pointed out to him, but if it's going to earn him a living in the relative world then that's all well and good, it's harmless enough, no one is doing any of this anyway. Would he do the same if he wasn't getting paid...I would, I'm doing it now, I'm giving out free advice on this forum right now and not getting a penny in return for all my time and love. 

 

I would in the relative sense teach someone to become what they are not...like a doctor or a policeman or something like that, but not what they already are...aka the absolute.

Teaching one to become the absolute from a relative position is absurd and is why I personally wouldn't entertain that teaching position.

 

I do entertain myself with a different writing style away from what is usually conscidered to be the normal everyday average joe kind of writing style, some might even say my writing style is snobbish, but then I chose to go to my own school of thought in regard to awakening to the eternal now nondual self, and my school was  kind of like Eton college in London, it doesn't just take on any old tom dick and harry thought process, it's totally elite thinking.

 

 

 

 

[Shadowraix]

1 hour ago, Umar_uk said:

I wasn't adding in the ''ONLY'' part...it was in fact Leo that actually wrote that down himself. It's a problem using the word ONLY..so leo needs to be more careful

Yeah I picked up on what you were referring to with my edit in that same post. But I can see what you mean about being more aware on how others might take your statement. This happens left and right to Leo. Him trying to get a point across and things getting all jumbled in the communication process. Sometimes its hard to be 'experienced' so to speak and convey it properly to someone with little to no idea. To those people, ideas and mental models is how they solely interface with the world. 

1 hour ago, Umar_uk said:

What one must realise and learn is that you cannot teach another one to become enlightened. Setting up schools for other people to teach them what they already are is the work of the devil..beware of false profits.

Well, I would think of it more like as helping them deconstruct all the illusions the mind has set up to maintain survival. Which is mind-blowing to me. The mind will evolve itself into deluding itself if it maintains survival. Wow. When you see what is left after deconstruction, thats even more wow. The rest is just theory to help approximate how we communicate the undefined.

1 hour ago, Umar_uk said:

Teaching one to become the absolute from a relative position is absurd and is why I personally wouldn't entertain that teaching position.

I don't know about you, but all of this is absurd to me to begin with haha. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Shadowraix

[Barna]

5 hours ago, Umar_uk said:

Well there is only self talking to itself. I get it that psyc's are useful for noticing the eternal now presence. But that's not the only way like Leo aka an aspect of myself implies.

This thread is to make it clear to others, aka myself that drugs and spiritual practices are not the only way to notice the eternal now...is everyone here not noticing this point ?

Almost everybody can notice the eternal now, but not everybody appreciates it. 

Psychedelics and meditation are for getting a deeper, more complete view on the eternal now. A psychedelic experience leaves a mark, it leaves a desire to have a deeper experience of reality. 

I agree with you, no drugs or spiritual practice is required for deep realizations. But when people don't even have the desire for deep experiences and understandings then telling them that "everything to experience is already here and now" is not helpful for them. 

So the question is: do you want to be right, or do you want to be helpful? 

[Umar_uk]

54 minutes ago, Barna said:

Almost everybody can notice the eternal now, but not everybody appreciates it. 

Psychedelics and meditation are for getting a deeper, more complete view on the eternal now. A psychedelic experience leaves a mark, it leaves a desire to have a deeper experience of reality. 

I agree with you, no drugs or spiritual practice is required for deep realizations. But when people don't even have the desire for deep experiences and understandings then telling them that "everything to experience is already here and now" is not helpful for them. 

So the question is: do you want to be right, or do you want to be helpful? 

Being helpful when someone asks for help is ok, otherwise leave people be unless they ask for help, don't force helpful on someone if they are not interested... interest in this suject comes spontaneously uninvited....you cannot force it on people...it's not about being right either. The right comes to light from the listener of the helpful advice not from the speaker of helpful advice. Many authors appear to help with their stories, but there is only one reader...reading it's own echo, the reader will either resonate or not. There is no one more right than another, for all knowledge is fiction anyway.

If no one has a desire to see the eternal now..then anything you tell them about how to see it will be not be helpful anyway..so that's a mute statement you made above for a start.

To tell people they will only notice the eternal now via drugs and that unless you adopt this method only you will not see it....  matters not and makes no difference whether we tell them they need a deeper probe or tell them that  everything to experience is already here and now without the use of a deeper probe.......and what will that do to the uninterested...it matter not either way...why favor one method over the other if no one is actually going to care or have any desire about wanting to notice the eternal now in the first place. It's going to be irrelevant how you inform people of how to see it. . people will only make up there own mind about things like that...the mind that they believe they have but haven't....most people don't want their mind fucking with with such absurd  notions that they are god, they are mostly concerned with just their basic survival. Let the sleepers sleep, let the dead bury the dead, it's not up to man who is walking to even direct his step. Beware the false profits.

[Barna]

I wish the best for the people who are following your philosophy... 

Psychonauts are the bravest people on this planet, they don't need my good wishes

[Umar_uk]

18 minutes ago, Barna said:

I wish the best for the people who are following your philosophy... 

Psychonauts are the bravest people on this planet, they don't need my good wishes

All you can do is follow your own nose, and keep it clean, then you can't go wrong, the path home is always right under your own nose, closer than your very own skin, it's that intimate. There is no follow a leader because the leader is also a follower...add infinitum. There is no first cause, you are both the first and the last. Infinity Now.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Umar_uk

[Umar_uk]

3 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

 

I don't know about you, but all of this is absurd to me to begin with haha. 

chuckles!!  

 

The absurd notion of oneness...if you weren't mad before non-dual self-realisation you certainly will be after, because you won't exist yet you will. 

 

It's so beautiful actually. Such a shit load of mysterious miracles and magic.

 

[Aeris]

6 hours ago, Umar_uk said:

I wasn't adding in the ''ONLY'' part...it was in fact Leo that actually wrote that down himself. It's a problem using the word ONLY..so leo needs to be more careful, I'm just correcting him as a good teacher would...but I don't think he likes being corrected by other teachers.

I agree that the chemicals in phyc's can take you to nirvana that is the nondual self...but I don't know that through my own experience, but on what someone else has told me, namely, via heresy which is not a reliable source... the proof is always in the pudding, excuse the cliche. What one must realise and learn is that you cannot teach another one to become enlightened. Setting up schools for other people to teach them what they already are is the work of the devil..beware of false profits.

I personally wouldn't dream of teaching another one to become what they already are...seriously this message is totally free advice...I don't think Leo likes that truth being pointed out to him, but if it's going to earn him a living in the relative world then that's all well and good, it's harmless enough, no one is doing any of this anyway. Would he do the same if he wasn't getting paid...I would, I'm doing it now, I'm giving out free advice on this forum right now and not getting a penny in return for all my time and love. 

 

I would in the relative sense teach someone to become what they are not...like a doctor or a policeman or something like that, but not what they already are...aka the absolute.

Teaching one to become the absolute from a relative position is absurd and is why I personally wouldn't entertain that teaching position.

 

I do entertain myself with a different writing style away from what is usually conscidered to be the normal everyday average joe kind of writing style, some might even say my writing style is snobbish, but then I chose to go to my own school of thought in regard to awakening to the eternal now nondual self, and my school was  kind of like Eton college in London, it doesn't just take on any old tom dick and harry thought process, it's totally elite thinking.

 

 

 

 

you're a deluded on your self concept of enlightment, what if this is not "this" thing you are thinking enlightement is.

you put meaning and attribute to this word, but what does it means really ? does it really means this concept of being a self living his life and finding yourself ? what "this" is really about ? really about this idea you are covering ? you know it, cause you're enlightened, so this concept and feeling you put on enlightment is there.

it's not because 10 sleepers on the forum tell you what is enlightement including even leo that you should create a meaning for yourself out of it. Enlightement is carved by yourself

 enlightment could be a process, not a state you can reach and be on.

 

[Umar_uk]

You can't become or know enlightment, you are enlightenment.

 

You know it, but you cannot speak about it. Words are pointers pointing back to the absolute silent knower, using words to point to the wordless silence is counter productive and is why I don't take myself the self I think I have too seriously or worry about having to explain or understand myself...what comes out of my mouth is just deluded pyscho babble like most noise is. Words are in essense just noise heard as words with meaning, a total fiction. Might as well chirp like a bird for all it's worth, we're all just singing for the sake of singing. No thing is making this happen. It just happens. Does anyone actually  know what the heck they are talking about ..I hardly doubt it. Chirp chirp.