Awakening to the eternal now does not require drugs or practice to

[Shadowraix]

1 hour ago, Umar_uk said:

Life is your only school and teacher. It is only Life that evolves in you an awakening when it's meant to happen and not one second before. We are talking about Enlightenment here ..not biology, physics, english, french, cooking, dance, or math lessons, or how to be a brain surgeon or an astronaut.

It's totally intuitive that I do not exist as my name-tag informs...dropping the name-tag reveals everything you need to know about yourself all by itself.

 

 

And learning from people and doing practices is also... Life. Sounds like you are too caught up in the absolute. Keep your mind on the star, but your mind to the feet. Work both ends of the paradox. 

The fact you even need to explain this shows there is work to be done. 

Leo isn't literally saying you can't get enlightened without doing practices. That should go without needing to say it. Those cases are far and few between though. We are talking the relative perspective. Be careful about conflating the two. It'll just end in a circular argument instead of understanding emphasis 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Shadowraix

[Umar_uk]

8 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

And learning from people and doing practices is also... Life. Sounds like you are too caught up in the absolute. Keep your mind on the star, but your mind to the feet. Work both ends of the paradox. 

The fact you even need to explain this shows there is work to be done. 

Leo isn't literally saying you can't get enlightened without doing practices. That should go without needing to say it. Those cases are far and few between though. We are talking the relative perspective. Be careful about conflating the two. It'll just end in a circular argument instead of understanding emphasis 

Please don't tell me what I'm thinking or how to think thanks.

 

Again, all I'm saying is that drugs and practices is not the ONLY method to enlightenment that Leo implies. He said it. And I'm just pointing out the inconsistency, this is not just about what ever the teacher says goes...the student is also the teacher, and we both learn from each other, there is no divide. When ONE teaches, two learn.

 

 "A teacher's purpose is not to create students in his own image, but to develop students who can create their own image." 

[Nahm]

Practices don’t add. They are of letting go of all the false thoughts, beliefs, interpretations, perspectives, ideas, etc, until there is nothing. Eventually the practices themselves are revealed to have been the very same. You don’t ‘get somewhere’, you realize you never did. 

[mandyjw]

8 minutes ago, Umar_uk said:

Again, all I'm saying is that drugs and practices is not the ONLY method to enlightenment that Leo implies. He said it. And I'm just pointing out the inconsistency, this is not just about what ever the teacher says goes...the student is also the teacher, and we both learn from each other, there is no divide. When ONE teaches, two learn.

 

 "A teacher's purpose is not to create students in his own image, but to develop students who can create their own image." 

Don't be afraid or concerned, Leo is already doing this, all of his students are already creating their own image with or without the use of physical psychedelics.  

[Umar_uk]

Just now, mandyjw said:

Don't be afraid or concerned, Leo is already doing this, all of his students are already creating their own image with or without the use of physical psychedelics.  

I know that. 

 

Leo has plenty of big fish, that's for sure, enough to feed an army. I understand that he wants to feed us his fish and at the same time teach us how to fish for ourselves so that we never hunger again...I have recently become aware of his videos, they are amazing, I understand everything he is saying, it's wonderful to hear it...in the way he puts it, his delivery is excellent and very enjoyable to listen to.

 

I just don't agree with the part where he says the ONLY WAY to become enlightened is through spiritual teacher, practices, or drugs. That's all I'm saying here. 

[Inliytened1]

@Umar_uk i read that post just now and he was addressing that particular student based on that particular student.

He doesn't state that in any of his episodes which are to the masses.  So you may be splitting hairs here.

[Umar_uk]

17 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Umar_uk i read that post just now and he was addressing that particular student based on that particular student.

He doesn't state that in any of his episodes which are to the masses.  So you may be splitting hairs here.

I never mentioned anything about what he said in his episodes. I'm simply pointing out what he said on this forum. He said...

LEO said..''Eternity will only become noticable through practices or psychedelics''

The masses are reading this forum, not just one particular person, many authors appear and can say and write what the heck they want, but there is only one reader... it's a misleading statement to make, even if he was addressing it to the individual student on that thread, it's still not for him to say it because every awakening is different and not just confined to one persons belief about how awakening to the eternal can be experienced.

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Umar_uk

[Inliytened1]

@Umar_uk fair enough

 

[Shadowraix]

@Umar_uk Perhaps you interpreted the statement the wrong way? ? There's often more than meets the eye especially when you consider context. 

Wouldn't surprise me when you took my statements as me trying to tell you what you are thinking or what to think. Definitely not what I was trying to communicate to you. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Shadowraix

[Barna]

Psychedelics are not a path, but rather the signs that are showing a direction. 

When I take psychedelics it's like the substance is telling me "See, this is how it feels when your ego isn't with you". 

Psychedelics showed me such states of consciousness that now I have a motivation to meditate. 

Everyday people don't have reasons to meditate. If you don't recommend psychedelics, how do you show the everyday folks that it's worth having a daily meditation practice? 

Do you actually know anybody personally who really wants to be more peaceful, or truly enjoys listening to the present moment? 

[Umar_uk]

2 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

@Umar_uk Perhaps you interpreted the statement the wrong way? ? There's often more than meets the eye especially when you consider context. 

Wouldn't surprise me when you took my statements as me trying to tell you what you are thinking or what to think. Definitely not what I was trying to communicate to you. 

Go back and read your reply again ...it defo states that you were telling me what to think ....and what you thought I was thinking. If not then what was it that you were trying to communicate to me?

Edited June 11, 2019 by Umar_uk

[Shadowraix]

5 minutes ago, Umar_uk said:

Go back and read your reply again ...it defo states that you were telling me what to think ....and what you thought I was thinking. If not then what was it that you were trying to communicate to me?

What you think I was trying to tell you how to think was just advice. 

You are right I was making a guess about what I think you are thinking. But I see that as distinctively different than a claim of for sure knowing what you think. 

But at the end of the day such statements were an attempt to give you an outsider perspective to reflect on. We're all trying to grow together here. 

[Umar_uk]

7 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

What you think I was trying to tell you how to think was just advice. 

You are right I was making a guess about what I think you are thinking. But I see that as distinctively different than a claim of for sure knowing what you think. 

But at the end of the day such statements were an attempt to give you an outsider perspective to reflect on. We're all trying to grow together here. 

So what was you trying to communicate to me...advice me?

[Umar_uk]

2 hours ago, Barna said:

Psychedelics are not a path, but rather the signs that are showing a direction. 

When I take psychedelics it's like the substance is telling me "See, this is how it feels when your ego isn't with you". 

Psychedelics showed me such states of consciousness that now I have a motivation to meditate. 

Everyday people don't have reasons to meditate. If you don't recommend psychedelics, how do you show the everyday folks that it's worth having a daily meditation practice? 

Do you actually know anybody personally who really wants to be more peaceful, or truly enjoys listening to the present moment? 

So you’re basically saying that you use a substance to show you there is no substance to you ?

Well you know...I can feel the same way ..no ego present without using any substance or being in any meditive  state..that’s all I’m saying here.

[Barna]

1 hour ago, Umar_uk said:

So you’re basically saying that you use a substance to show you there is no substance to you ?

Yes. Once you're there, you're there. It doesn't matter how you got there. Causality doesn't make sense in the state of infinity. 

1 hour ago, Umar_uk said:

Well you know...I can feel the same way ..no ego present without using any substance or being in any meditive  state..that’s all I’m saying here.

I'm talking about the usefulness of psychedelics in general for most of the people who want to know why to pay attention to the present moment. 

I didn't realize that you made this thread to talk only about yourself

Edited June 11, 2019 by Barna

[Umar_uk]

9 hours ago, Barna said:

Yes. Once you're there, you're there. It doesn't matter how you got there. Causality doesn't make sense in the state of infinity. 

I'm talking about the usefulness of psychedelics in general for most of the people who want to know why to pay attention to the present moment. 

I didn't realize that you made this thread to talk only about yourself

Well there is only self talking to itself. I get it that psyc's are useful for noticing the eternal now presence. But that's not the only way like Leo aka an aspect of myself implies.

This thread is to make it clear to others, aka myself that drugs and spiritual practices are not the only way to notice the eternal now...is everyone here not noticing this point ?

[Umar_uk]

9 hours ago, Barna said:

Yes. Once you're there, you're there. It doesn't matter how you got there. Causality doesn't make sense in the state of infinity. 

 

 

 

You get there by realising there is only here and nowhere else to go and that what you think is getting there is actually here the whole time. Infinity is not a state.

 

 

[Umar_uk]

15 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

What you think I was trying to tell you how to think was just advice. 

You are right I was making a guess about what I think you are thinking. But I see that as distinctively different than a claim of for sure knowing what you think. 

But at the end of the day such statements were an attempt to give you an outsider perspective to reflect on. We're all trying to grow together here. 

I'll address this post again...first I'd like to thank you for the free advice ...and for the perspectives to reflect on.

 

Now, would you like to reflect on the following advice....drugs and spiritual practices are not the only way to notice the eternal now?

Don't you think it's sloppy for Leo to say something like that? isn't it far better that we be impeccable with our choice of words when talking about our own personal direct experiences with other people, aka ourselves...each direct experience is unique, that only you can know, only you can experience from the persepective of that perceptive lens....no other can ever experience you...so rather than tell people this is how we do it is just not good enough...well no actually, this is not how we do it, it's how you do it, it's not how others do it.

 

Do you get my drift?

 

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Umar_uk

[Umar_uk]

14 hours ago, Barna said:

Psychedelics are not a path, but rather the signs that are showing a direction. 

When I take psychedelics it's like the substance is telling me "See, this is how it feels when your ego isn't with you". 

 

Do you actually know anybody personally who really wants to be more peaceful, or truly enjoys listening to the present moment? 

Don't you think this is a bit odd?

No I don't know anybody personally, I can only know myself.

 

You are saying that substances are showing you as a pure formless awareness..I'm assuming that's what you mean by no ego present right?

But then you have imbibed the substance so the substance is inside your body, so how can you be without substance as in formless awareness if the substance is inside you...my point is ..where I go ego...they are the same one. This can be realised quite simply ...but by forcing your ego away deliberately is just another pleasure seeking activity, it has nothing to do with anything other than that ..because life is already enlightened.

 

The ego is here to stay, and that's why we don't go around taking a dump outside on the pavement in front of other people...the ego is there for a reason, and that is God.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Umar_uk

[Shadowraix]

@Umar_uk I always agreed they are not the only way. A lot of my insights have derived from just living life despite my initial awakening being drug induced. 

I just know when Leo gives his statements there's often a lot of nuance he might not cover. You could go in forever into the realm of nuance so I didn't think he meant such a statement literally. 

I don't think anybody disagrees with your key premise. I think people are just adding you wouldn't tell somebody to just live life as normal for awakening in a school meant to tell you how to pursue it. It's not an opposition statement its more a statement on practicality in the relative. 

It's quite funny isn't it? The very illusion you are supposed to deconstruct helps you realize it. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Shadowraix