Leo, what do you think of NDE's?

[EvilAngel]

Hi Leo. I'm very interested in this topic, and would love to hear what you have to say on the matter. Near Death Experiences have happened to millions of people throughout history and many cases have been documented. People often report looking down upon their bodies from above, and sometimes witness things that happen in, say, an operating room, which can later be verified by people who were present at the time - things that they would have no way of knowing, as their physical body is lifeless at the time. People report travelling through a dark tunnel with a light at the end. This light is so beautiful that they can't describe it in words. They often end up in a beautiful place and meet dead relatives, sometimes even people they didn't know existed before the NDE, which they later find out about. They often report having a "life-review" in which they are shown moments in their lives when they affected other people, both positively and negatively, and they are able to experience what those people experienced. Sometimes they are asked by "beings" or "God" whether they want to stay in this beautiful place of love and light, or whether they want to return to Earth and "complete their mission". Sometimes they are categorically told it's not their time and are forced to return to their bodies. But even those people who have young families on Earth find it difficult to accept that they have to leave the place of light. It is a place where they feel at home. They feel like they have returned to where they belong. 

Taking DMT is said to be similar to a NDE, but apparently there is no definitive answer to the question of whether NDE's are purely chemical reactions or not. 

What I'm thinking is if they were just chemical reactions, then how would one explain the phenomenon of people seeing things in the operating room that they would "logically" have no way of knowing? This suggests that their consciousness or spirit has left their body, and the experience is actually happening outside the brain and body. 

So, maybe DMT facilitates the soul's departure from the body? 

What I'm interested to find out is what you know about this topic, because these experiences (which there are millions of documented cases of such) would suggest that God is actually a kind of "entity" (for lack of a better word) that exists outside of us. This goes against some of your teachings. What also goes against your teachings is the phenomenon of people being allowed to "choose" whether to return to their bodies or not, suggesting that there is such a thing as free will. In fact, free will seems to be important, as the life-reviews suggest that things could have gone differently, and that there was in fact a degree of choice. 

Thanks for reading. I hope you have time to reply to this thread. 

 

[Aakash]

18 minutes ago, EvilAngel said:

Sometimes they are asked by "beings" or "God" whether they want to stay in this beautiful place of love and light, or whether they want to return to Earth and "complete their mission".

 

18 minutes ago, EvilAngel said:

What I'm thinking is if they were just chemical reactions, then how would one explain the phenomenon of people seeing things in the operating room

one thing is for sure, your brain does not have time to process what is happening, nor produce this NDE 

i'm not sure if i can phrase this properly, but it could simply just consciousness splitting into infinity, the problem is when you regain consciousness, multiple concepts get placed back over it, probably even a fractal of a second after the splitting has occured and you've gained consciousness inside the NDE, concepts such as time, place, where, when, who, "i" 

see the thing that hard for people to grasp is,

1) how "i" identification works 

2) that conceptual laws don't apply to pure consciousness or god should we call it for understanding 

3) the NDE is the same amount of realness as when you wake up from the NDE

a tiny example thats understandable as a concept would be that in NDE time, time could be 4 hours = 1 nanosecond in the real world, 

but overall this is not true, because time itself is a concept

 

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Aakash

[OctagonOctopus]

After a NDE one ends up with an expirence of, well the unexplainable. All understanding collapses. Now I think what ends up happening is people will project their beliefs onto that expirence in an attempt to understand it. 

[Aakash]

@OctagonOctopus yup and then it will be term a near death experience because it happened at the time of near death. Its ironic but i would say one thing that definately happen is that the near death experience has itself already simulated the death of self  in a nanosecond, you get enlightened for a fraction of eternity, (metaphorically), infinity leaves the physical plane into pure imagination, it imagines what it wants to imagine just as what is happening with us right now. we think we are the ones living our lives but we aren't. 

[Aldo]

One perspective

[Gili Trawangan]

@Aldo It's not true that no one has ever come back from actual death. NDEs are all put in the same basket, but: in some cases people get near death, yes. In other cases people are clinically dead, sometimes for 2, 3 or more minutes and then are revived or come back. We shouldn't dismiss these people's experiences, I once saw a video on YouTube of a scientist who had a real NDE and it changed her view of reality forever. She also didn't want to come back, despite having small children and a loving family. 

[EvilAngel]

@Aldo that guy is talking utter shit, he says no-one has died and come back... What about children who remember having previous lives, who have obviously been reincarnated. Details of their previous lives can be verified with exceptional precision. He obviously has done no research, yet is acting "in the know" despite this. 

[Aakash]

3 minutes ago, Gili Trawangan said:

n other cases people are clinically dead, sometimes for 2, 3 or more minutes and then are revived or come back.

this one is simple to solve: death itself is a concept, so when is a person actually dead clinically- when they're heart stops beating. but even if it starts beating again, in reality nothing has happened lol, but conceptually it has, the person has come back to life! real mind bender

Edited June 11, 2019 by Aakash

[Shadowraix]

God can certainly take the form of an entity, but that is not all that God is. When God speaks to you it is talking to itself. At the end of the day, the idea of an entity is just a distinction you are drawing. 

Also the body doesn't "have" a soul and is not separate from its materialistic form. The soul is the body. A piece of spirit aka consciousness 

Your sober state is just a chemical reaction too. These reactions derive from reality though. All equally as real

Edited June 11, 2019 by Shadowraix

[Aakash]

Wow I never thought of that, the soul is the body lol in its dualistic sense 

[OctagonOctopus]

I have actually died and came back, my heart stopped beating declared dead 3 times in succession. There really is no such thing as death, because death is finite, Consciousness is infinite, eternal, there is no such things as unconsciousness either as unconsciousness is inside Consciousness. Once merging back with Void Consciousness, Infinite Intelligence starts creating, abstracting (The best word I can think to describe it) , everything that it wills. I believe this is the reason that people come back with stories, the come down back to finite existence where everything starts abstracting is very wild can take one to an infinite set of possible scenarios, anything one could possibly imagine could happen could happen. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by OctagonOctopus

[Gili Trawangan]

16 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Actual death is when the body dies and doesn't come back to life.

This sentence makes no sense. If actual death means that you don't come back, then it is indeed impossible, it's right there in your definition. 

In reality there are cases when the body dies and then it miraculously comes back to life. People who go through it report experiences that are mystical in nature.

[Nahm]

They’ll be collectively reinterpreted soon, as near realization experiences. 

[seeking_brilliance]

haha I have a feeling Leo would prefer FDE's