The Founder Of Israel Was Spiral Dynamic Stage Yellow- Read Some Amazing Facts!

[Corpus]

On ‎29‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 3:34 AM, Leo Gura said:

. After the war there was a movement to create Israel.

The movement was established in the 1880s; look up Theodor Herzl.It was codified as a realisable notion by the Balfour Declaration in 1917 for political reasons in order to swerve US public opinion to enter WW1 and within a year they had allowed the Allied Powers to win.

For those forum members who truly embody critical and independent thinking (ie can look at evidence and make up their own minds) I would recommend reading:

"The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" by IIan Pappe;

"Conquest Through Immigration" by George Robnett:

"The Controversy of Zion" by Douglas Reed.

Ben Gurion appears as less of a beacon of light once the knowledge in these works has been considered.

   

[Mezanti]

@Leo Gura yes, there is no leader capable of pleasing survival agendas universally however “good” leaders do not commit mass murder. Good leaders can make another groups survival more complicated and difficult, yet “Good” leaders do not kill as a way to serve their agenda, this is barbaric, backwards, and downright psychopathic.

[Nivsch]

9 hours ago, Mezanti said:

@Nivsch  But morally children, mothers, fathers, young adults, humans just like you and i die on a daily basis due to policies Netanyahu has inforced.

Netanyahu is evil in the eyes of the Palestinians because their lives are threatened by him, their fundamental rights have been stripped away, it is not accurate to think of Netanyahu as an empathetic or "Good person" because good means bettering lives of humans (increasing survival) and he is doing the opposite.

 

This is not true. The Palestines are suffering because of their leaders "Hamas" who takes all the money they get on daily basic from israel and waste it on terror weapons, terror summer camps of 5 year old Palestines children with weapons on their shoulders (videos are spreading all the time in the net), terror tunnels, missiles and etc. They could be "singapure" of the middle east if they wanted so. Israel acts only when provoked and missiles thretenes the life of israeli children. Hamas uses its citizens and even hospitals as human shields and hides missles in active hospitals! I respect the purpose of this forum so i dont want to start an argument about it but i had to answer that. We can keep talking in private if you want

[Mezanti]

@Nivsch No offense to you, you only know what you are told, what you are saying is factually false, there is no concrete basis in reality that affirm your claims. Now of-course these “facts” that you preach are nothing but political talk to Israeli citizens by the Politicians to justify their actions, to say Palestinians are a threat to israel is like saying  an Elephant is threatened by a mouse. And no israel does not attack only when threatened. 95% of the time israel is attacking not as a defense. 5% of the time israel is actually threatened by fire kites, that cause little harm but still in danger citizens, bombs that are indeed a threat. If u want me to lay out data in dms, feel free to msg me, again, we are trying to have an idea exchange not an argument, i dont feel as if though we should continue this in private simply because we can have more people input their perspective.

[Mezanti]

@Nivsch No offense to you, you only know what you are told, what you are saying is factually false, there is no concrete basis in reality that affirm your claims. Now of-course these “facts” that you preach are nothing but political talk to Israeli citizens by the Politicians to justify their actions, to say Palestinians are a threat to israel is like saying  an Elephant is threatened by a mouse. And no israel does not attack only when threatened. 95% of the time israel is attacking not as a defense. 5% of the time israel is actually threatened by fire kites, that cause little harm but still in danger citizens, bombs that are indeed a threat. If u want me to lay out data in dms, feel free to msg me, again, we are trying to have an idea exchange not an argument, i dont feel as if though we should continue this in private simply because we can have more people input their perspective.

[Nivsch]

Just now, Mezanti said:

@Nivsch No offense to you, you only know what you are told, what you are saying is factually false, there is no concrete basis in reality that affirm your claims. Now of-course these “facts” that you preach are nothing but political talk to Israeli citizens by the Politicians to justify their actions, to say Palestinians are a threat to israel is like saying  an Elephant is threatened by a mouse. And no israel does not attack only when threatened. 95% of the time israel is attacking not as a defense. 5% of the time israel is actually threatened by fire kites, that cause little harm but still in danger citizens, bombs that are indeed a threat. If u want me to lay out data in dms, feel free to msg me, again, we are trying to have an idea exchange not an argument, i dont feel as if though we should continue this in private simply because we can have more people input their perspective.

I cannot answer this because you only say "no no you are wrong".

Ok.

 

[Mezanti]

@Nivsch well, you claimed that israel only defends (by killing dozens within the span of minutes) against threats and that is true only around 5% of the time. So your statement is mostly wrong.but I want to hear your side, please go on...

[Mezanti]

@Nivsch also, hammas just like any other violent defensive organization emerge when there is a need for them to emerge. Long before hammas was created israel persisted with the ethnical cleansing of palestinians.

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, Mezanti said:

@Leo Gura yet “Good” leaders do not kill as a way to serve their agenda, this is barbaric, backwards, and downright psychopathic.

This just not how reality works.

Basically every president makes many killing decisions.

Name a "good" president who hasn't killed to serve their agenda?

[Mezanti]

@Leo Guraobama ordered attacks on a shit ton of terrorists killing some civilians in that process which is an issue of it self, but these attacks where done to those terrorists because that's who they where, terror-fucking- ists, but obama did so out of sheer necessity because those terrorists threatened lives of american or american-allied citizens BUT there's a difference when it comes to Netanyahu, this guy authorizes military systems that enforce the killing of children. point and blank. For what? i'll tell you in summary: ethnical cleansing.

Natanyahu should go fuck himself with a hanukkah menorah. This is hidden terrorism in plain sight. 

to come back to your point, good is relative to something that serves life, so when we say one is good, we associate him with empathy, compassion, and a need to help all. No president can please all survival agendas as you said,  but there is a line, a good leader generally speaking means that this individual serves a big portion of different survival agendas, and creating new systems that integrate each groups survival agenda so that they function with relation to each other. Israel does not do this, their system is to kill and expand territory. 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Mezanti

[Leo Gura]

The point is, all that is relative.

They are "terrorists" to YOU because you got a survival agenda. To themselves they are not terrorists, they are defenders of their way of life.

In every case a human is simply defending his way of life.

Israel's system is not to kill but to carve out a homeland for themsleves, yes. Killing is a byproduct of that.

I do not support what Israel is doing, but that's my agenda.

[Mezanti]

@Leo Gura makes sense

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, Mezanti said:

@Leo GuraNetanyahu, this guy authorizes military systems that enforce the killing of children. point and blank. For what? i'll tell you in summary: ethnical cleansing.

Natanyahu should go fuck himself with a hanukkah menorah. This is hidden terrorism in plain sight. 

Mezanti, its not true no matter how much times you repeat it. I live in a settlement which many career soldiers are living in especially Israeli military pilots. I know very well the culture of those people from when i was 4 year-old. They are sensitive people, they have high values of humannity and acceptance, and ethics. They are liberal people. Life values are above everything.

Hamas (leaders of palestines in gaza) knows that, and just because of that, he fires from hospitals, from children gradens, from schools and in this way its impossible for Israel to not kill MISTAKENLY Innocent civilians from time to time. Hamas forces his civilians to stay close to him physically when fires to make israel not to attack them just because they KNOW Israel's "weakness" (morality). Hamas executes people who has suspected in co operating with israel, and than dragging his body on the road with a car! You cant even imagine how barbaric they are including to they own people. They have no limits at all.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Nivsch

[Mezanti]

@Nivsch lies! ask yourself where you know this information! You cannot say a headshot to a 16 yearold girl protesting is a mistake. This isnt one case or instance this is ongoing as we speak right now! 

[Corpus]

23 hours ago, Nivsch said:

This is not true. The Palestines are suffering because of their leaders "Hamas" who takes all the money they get on daily basic from israel and waste it on terror weapons, terror summer camps of 5 year old Palestines children with weapons on their shoulders (videos are spreading all the time in the net), terror tunnels, missiles and etc.

Does this include the Palestinians in refugee camps in the Lebanon? Ponder on that.

Also, consider Benjamin Netanyahus "pedigree"; he is the son of Benzion Netanyahu who was the personal secretary of a chap called Ze'ev Jabotinsky, an ideologue behind Revisionist Zionism who put together an outfit which supported Britain in WW1  against the Turks including at Gallipoli before later being instrumental in setting up Irgun, the terrorist group who later fought against the British including partly orchestrating  the King David Hotel bombing. If you think that Benjamin Netanyahu has fully 100% rejected all notions of the strands of thought his heritage represents then I reckon you are viewing matters through rose-tinted spectacles.

Also note parallels which are more current- Bin Laden, his adherence to a "revisionist" (Takfiri) Islam and support for the "good guys" (USA) against Russia in Afghanistan before ultimately coming to "fight/terrorize" the US. He finds justification through a particular interpretation of Quranic verses and Prophetic traditions, in the same way that parts of Deuteronomy can be interpreted to justify murder of innocents.

Also, pilots tend to not see the damage they cause up close when dropping bombs, so its easier for them to delude themselves about their humanity and compassion.   

[Mezanti]

@Corpus ok pilots dont see the damage from up close, what about the soldiers that beat to death Palestinian teens, what about snipers shooting teens and kids in the heads, what delusion could justify their acts and convey them as compassionate people? The funny thing is, is that, they actually think they are doing the greater good, they think they are good people! THEY FOUND A DELUSION! This is just a more civilized version of what happened in Nazi germany. This is nazism aimed at palestinians. 

[Corpus]

16 hours ago, Nivsch said:

 I live in a settlement which many career soldiers are living in especially Israeli military pilots. I know very well the culture of those people from when i was 4 year-old. They are sensitive people, they have high values of humannity and acceptance, and ethics. They are liberal people. Life values are above everything.

 

Mezanti- my comment re pilots was in reference to what is quoted here. I would also caution against calling the conduct of IDF forces "Nazism" not because what they are doing is more acceptable, but more because it is not accurate, and the word Nazism being loosely applied to all kinds of things we don't approve of (eg Grammar Nazi) is hyperbolic.

[Mezanti]

@Corpus ok.

[ShaharA]

With all the respect, I think this discussion became an agenda argument. If we consider ourself as an open minded community, why don't you ask quastions? You have here few Israelis (and a few pslastinens I hope) who actually live in Israel and served in the Army. I have got my experience directly from the army before anything even got to the media (the media is a distortion in Israel, but in Europe, US and other places it is completely disconnected) I am not going to argue with any one here because I know what I saw and experienced. If you really want to know the true, come and live here for a year, speak with the people on both sides and see for yourself.  If you have questions and you really want to listen with open mind instead of just rejecting every perspective feel free to ask.