Is 5 meo dmt really a magic pill to enlightenment?

Aakash · June 12, 2019

@Arhattobe awwhh well let it be then, i'm going to drop the subject from my side, i don't have experience it so there's no point of talking about it, sorry this is my bad, i haven't done enough work to be more sure. But lol, no way i'm going to go that deep into it, would love to, but FUAARRRK That

its i did at the end of the day, i haven't lived it out of experience

Edited June 12, 2019 by Aakash

Aakash · June 12, 2019

This is a post i made on january 2nd stating this very thing would happen, warning all of you.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Aakash

Arhattobe · June 12, 2019

26 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@Aakash I don’t think you understand yourself. Just hyped off of something some dude said, and in a heightened emotional state. Relax

@Aakash here is a post I made 5 mins ago. Telling you to relax.

lol

Aakash · June 12, 2019

LOOOL i'll relax, i'm done now. as you can see, people don't agree with me alot, never in my life have ever people thought once i knew what i was talking about must be where this stems for! time to do some shadow work!

whoareyou · June 12, 2019

@Leo Gura

There is a huge contradiction to how you and Martin W Ball use 5-MEO DMT:

(What he is describing is a lot of what you are doing here. It is also one of the reasons why you prefer to plugging it, instead of vaping it. Not saying that you are wrong or that he is right, but it is important to note this, because he used 5-MEO and you do consider him to be liberated.)

Taken from Entheogenic Liberation: Unraveling The Enigma of Nonduality with 5-mEO-DMT Energetic Therapy

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Liberation Through Unknowing:

Though psychedelics are great for thinking about things and exploring issues intellectually, such uses are not a necessary ingredient for nondual energy work with psychedelics. This is because the nondual state cannot be understood rationally or conceptually, so all such attemps to m"make sense" of the experience, especially as it is unfolding, are doomed to failure. Trying to understand the full 5-MEO DMT experience as it is happening is a fool's errand. And even post-session, spending too much time trying to understand or conceptualize it is often a waste of time, and can be a distraction from the true value of the work, which is direct energetic experience and processing.

You do not need to understand something to receive benefit from it. The ego likes to think it understands things so it can fee like it is in control and is its own master. That's just the ego being ego. Always remember that it is strictly your ego that wants to know. The ego wants to identify and classify everything and put reality and experience into neat conceptual boxes, thereby providing illusion of understanding and control. Some people respond to their nondual experience by turning to religion and esoteric metaphysics and symbolism in an attempt to find relevant boxes and categories for their experience.

Many people approach psychedelic experience as some kind of metaphysical retrieval process and place a great deal of emphasis and value on the concept of "bringing something back" from the session in terms of insights, revelations, and new understandings. Some even disparage the use of DMT and 5-MEO DMT as being too powerful and too brief to effectively accomplish this valued task. Needless to say, such a view completely and thoroughly misses the point of nondual energy therapy. There is nothing to "bring back" because there isn't anywhere to go, and there's nothing to be understood. The only relevant revelation is that you are God, and this isn't something that can be understood, though it can be experienced and the experience itself has infinite value as it helps you learn how to relax into your genuine nature and be yourself without attachment and illusion.

Edited June 12, 2019 by whoareyou

Preetom · June 12, 2019

@whoareyou

Martin is spot on! Thanks for posting that.

Now i can clearly see what I was intuiting all along. Self inquiry, 5 meo, tantra etc. Doesn't matter.

The bottomline is nondual absorption, in its fullest. Its not about insights, realizations, 'trying' to embody and integrate so on and so forth.

Its like a ego trying to edit a semicolon or a letter in a code VS the entire OS being reinstalled. That is something no ego can ever accomplish.

**Leo Gura** · June 12, 2019

34 minutes ago, whoareyou said:

Do you understand that the people who you consider to be enlightened frame it this way? One of whom took 10x more 5-MEO than you have. Martin W Ball makes it very clear and that is how he described his own process. He had many "non-dual experiences" until he totally liberated himself.

Eckhart Tolle who you also consider to be enlightened, defines enlightenment as the end of suffering (psychological), and full awakeness, always having non-dual awareness in the background, and in the present moment.

There comes a point in your evolution where you must throw away all so called authority futures. You must kill the Buddha to become the Buddha.

I cannot speak to anyone's experience but my own.

I don't really contradict Ball or Tolle. We agree more than we disagree. We all fundamentally agree on nonduality being the Truth. The rest is minutia.

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This is again where other people who you consider to be "enlightened" would disagree. Guys like Eckhart Tolle, and Rupert Spira would tell you that morals are there to limit the EGO, and once the person becomes conscious, morals are no longer needed. They are saying that actions that you consider "immoral" are usually very egoic by nature, so it doesn't make any sense for an enlightened being to go around murdering people.

Also based from my own "awakenings", I noticed what they are saying is true - the desire to commit "immoral" actions reduces tenfold automatically. Which makes me doubt some of the things that you are saying, it reminds me of "zen delivery" very much.

Again, I have never said that your desire to commit "immoral" actions will increase. I simply said that no matter what action you take, you will love yourself if you are fully conscious. This is total liberation: you are free to do whatever you want and still love yourself. This does not mean you will become a serial killer.

This is so obvious I shouldn't even have to qualify it.

**Leo Gura** · June 12, 2019

18 minutes ago, whoareyou said:

@Leo Gura

There is a huge contradiction to how you and Martin W Ball use 5-MEO DMT:

Again, it's not such a big contradiction as you think.

Yes, I emphasize understanding and insight more than Martin does. But this does not contradict anything. I am simply interested in insight and understanding. It is definitely possible to understand yourself as God and all of the facets which you are. Not in a rational linguistic manner.

Understanding and Being are ultimately one. So there's no serious contradiction here, just a difference in emphasis.

It's not merely the ego that wants to know. God is waking up to itself. God wants to know what it is. Don't dismiss this as mere ego.

Martin has a certain style of working with 5-MeO and I have my own style. Different people have different styles of doing this work. And that's okay. Find your own fave style.

I do "energetic experiencing and processing too" on my trips. It's not as though I sit there and conceptualize stuff on the trip, LOL. Having insights and understanding and doing energetic process work well together. Don't make it a false dichotomy. You can have it all!

whoareyou · June 12, 2019

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There comes a point in your evolution where you must throw away all so called authority futures. You must kill the Buddha to become the Buddha.

I cannot speak to anyone's experience but my own.

I don't really contradict Ball or Tolle. I agree more than we disagree

I didn't say that you contradicted them here, but your definition of "enlightenment" is certainly different from them.

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

.

Again, I have never said that your desire to commit "immoral" actions will increase. I simply said that no matter what action you take, you will love yourself if you are fully conscious. This is total liberation: you are free to do whatever you want and still love yourself.

You didn't say "increase", but you stated that there is no correlation between "immoral actions" and "enlightenment". This is a very big nuance.

whoareyou · June 12, 2019

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Again, it's not such a big contradiction as you think.

Yes, I emphasize understanding and insight more than Martin does. But this does not contradict anything. I am simply interested in insight and understanding. It is definitely possible to understand yourself as God and all of the facets which you are. Not in a rational linguistic manner.

Understanding and Being are ultimately one. So there's no serious contradiction here, just a difference in emphasis.

It's not merely the ego that wants to know. God is waking up to itself. God wants to know what it is. Don't dismiss this as mere ego.

It's a bigger contradiction than you think, if you look closely enough. According to him, ego wants to understand and know everything, and that is not necessary at all, when it comes to liberation. Even the title of the chapter is "Liberation through unknowing".

He specifically stated that gathering understanding and insights is not needed when it comes to using 5-MEO - it's a desire of the ego. It's a HUGE contradiction. And this is also one of the reasons why you don't prefer to vaping it, because you would not be able to have as many insights after the trip.

It's a clear as a day to me.

Edited June 12, 2019 by whoareyou

**Leo Gura** · June 12, 2019

11 minutes ago, whoareyou said:

I didn't say that you contradicted them here, but your definition of "enlightenment" is certainly different from them.

Not really. You suggest they use that word in a binary way whereas I use it more as matters of degree.

You can map a binary model onto a non-binary model.

It's like one person says: there exist cats and dogs.

And another person says: there exist Siamese, Calicos, Pit bulls, Golden Retrievers, etc.

Are they contradicting each other? No

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You didn't say "increase", but you stated that there is no correlation between "immoral actions" and "enlightenment". This is a very big nuance.

I don't recall saying that either.

Obviously the more conscious you are, the less you will tend to act like a devil. But if you slip up and act like a devil anyway (which does happen), that is okay too.

**Leo Gura** · June 12, 2019

10 minutes ago, whoareyou said:

It's a bigger contradiction than you think, if you look closely enough. According to him, ego wants to understand and know everything, and that is not necessary at all, when it comes to liberation. Even the title of the chapter is "Liberation through unknowing".

He specifically stated that gathering understanding and insights is not needed when it comes to using 5-MEO - it's a desire of the ego. It's a HUGE contradiction. And this is also one of the reasons why you don't prefer to vaping it, because you would not be able to as many insights after the trip.

It's a clear as a day to me.

It's a non-issue.

You are acting as though insight is something wrong or bad. This is absurd. The whole point of the spiritual path is to gain deeper insight into the nature of self, God, reality, and life. This is not "ego." This is self-recognition at a fine-grained level.

As God I enjoy studying myself in many different ways. If you don't want that, then do whatever you want. I could spend 1 million years studying myself. And I will.

My path is what's known as Jnana yoga. It's an intellect oriented path. Other people prefer a heart oriented path. I like to dissect stuff and make sense of it.

Anti-intellectualism is not a requirement of awakening. You can do both. The Jnana yoga path is very documented in history.

whoareyou · June 12, 2019

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a non-issue.

You are acting as though insight is some wrong or bad. This is absurd.

Watch out for your own projections here. I never said it was "wrong" or "bad". I simply pointed out a huge contradiction between your approach and Martin W Balls' approach to liberation and usage of 5-MEO DMT.

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The whole point of the spiritual path is to gain deeper insight into the nature of self, God, and reality. This is not "ego." This self-recognition at a fine-grained level.

If you can kill the Buddha, then you can also kill the "spiritual path", right? Who said that was the point?

Again, I think this is where you and Martin W Ball disagree.

Could you allow the possibility, that tomorrow you will vape 5-MEO DMT, come back here and say exact same thing as Martin is saying? Of course.

Edited June 12, 2019 by whoareyou

**Leo Gura** · June 12, 2019

8 minutes ago, whoareyou said:

Again, I think this is where you and Martin W Ball disagree.

We somewhat disagree. So what?

You expect all spiritual people to agree? Why do you think no two spiritual people agree 100%?

Contemplate that and try to gain an insight into it. Then maybe you'll also see the value of insight.

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Could you allow the possibility, that if tomorrow you will vape 5-MEO DmT, come back here and say exact same thing?

I have no problem vaping 5-MeO and I will do it. I have no dogma against it. I simply have been busy with other things.

I will even vape bufo and post a comparison of all of it for you guys.

Don't take me for a fool.

whoareyou · June 12, 2019

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

We somewhat disagree. So what?

You expect all spiritual people to agree? Why do you think no two spiritual people agree 100%?

This is clearly not the case. There is a huge difference in your approach to using 5-MEO DMT/Liberation and Martin's. The approaches contradict each other very much. You don't seem to be familiar with his books, so I recommend to read the latest one, as I can't type it all here.

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

As God I enjoy studying myself in many different ways. If you don't want that, then do whatever you want. I could spend 1 million years studying myself. And I will.

My path is what's known as Jnana yoga. It's an intellect oriented path. Other people prefer a heart oriented path. I like to dissect stuff and make sense of it.

Anti-intellectualism is not a requirement of awakening. You can do both. The Jnana yoga path is very documented in history.

Who says that there is such a thing as a "path"? Why not kill the "path" after you kill the Buddha?

I don't think we can make this assumption just because it is very documented in history.

This is something that you simply have not questioned/contemplated enough, maybe in your trips. I would not be surprised if you come tomorrow after another awakening and change your opinion.

Again, I am not saying that you are wrong, but you seem to be too convinced that it's true, when it may be not.