Is 5 meo dmt really a magic pill to enlightenment?

[Preetom]

Just now, Key Elements said:

Why do you think I'm fighting with him? Is it not ok to point out something?

Joke

Take care

 

[Key Elements]

2 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Joke

Take care

 

Ok. This topic is very important to me. It's not just about 5meo and other strong methods.

[DrewNows]

@Leo Gura ahh Leo...but Martin wouldn’t have sleep problems if he didn’t fully enlighten....

Taking psychs to “enlightenment” is an elitist mentality, like body builders taking steroids. I mean it’s your own path so good luck, but there’s gotta be integration in the NOW eventually with every passing moment as the test

Edited June 12, 2019 by DrewNows

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

@Leo Gura ahh Leo...but Martin wouldn’t have sleep problems if he didn’t fully enlighten....

You don't know that. As if enlightened people never had sleep problems before?

Quote

Taking psychs to “enlightenment” is an elitist mentality, like body builders taking steroids. I mean it’s your own path so good luck, but there’s gotta be integration in the NOW eventually with every passing moment as the test

Elitist? Lol

Integration is always ongoing. Far more time is spent on integration than on tripping. For every one hour of tripping there's maybe 5 to 20 hours of integration. Some trips take months of integration. It's not a walk in the park. Deep stuff gets surfaced, like psychotherapy at times.

- - - - - - - -

There's also a possibility that many of you aren't considering: What if the highest levels of awakening can ONLY be reached through 5-MeO-DMT? What if there are levels so high that they cannot be accessed by an unaltered human brain? Don't overlook such a possibility. The Buddha may not be the most enlightened person ever. The fact is you just don't know until you try. There is no reason to expect that the normal human brain can access all dimensions of consciousness possible. It very likely cannot.

[joeyi99]

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no reason to expect that the normal human brain can access all dimensions of consciousness possible. It very likely cannot.

I thought brains don't exist...

[Aakash]

I just had a thought, if total enlightenment is total enlightenment, it matters not on a scale, in essence we are trying to get back to 0, SO all it does really is put everyone on level playing feild. saying buddah is the highest enlightened is saying that he's basically at 0, but even the unenlightened person is technically at 0. So these two essentially cancel out at the point that the duality between enlightened and non enlightened dissipate. 

So really its just really a conceptual statement to say buddah reached the highest levels, sure he definitiely reached 0, i'm not disputing that. But what does highest consciousness mean after that, if everyone is at 0. I would agree that its as you've said, to be conscious of how you yourself created everything and that basically would be the end. 

Like what else is there to be conscious OF, by this point, your not only dead as a human, going to pure awareness 

THIS would hypothetically be different, This would be ....  unimaginable and unable to be put into any words 

enlightenment is bad enough to be put into words , but this.. i can't even fathom what i'm trying to say right now

EDIT: on second though, there's nothing prior to consciousness, but being, what could possibly be higher than being, in your opinion @Leo Gura what does omnipresence differ from being.. even though i know i can't understand it 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Aakash

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, joeyi99 said:

I thought brains don't exist...

Of course they don't. And yet you are stuck with your biology too. You can't be a lobster. Until you can.

It's a paradox.

[Bobby]

13 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@whoareyou When you experience the Absolute for yourself, which you have not, then you will be conscious of what Absolutes are.  Enlightenment vs non-enlightenment is a duality.

This.

At no point does someone go from being “not enlightened” to “enlightened.” It’s a gradual change 

people who haven’t awakened whatsoever generally don’t have any understanding of the infinite tiny shifts on the path

Edited June 12, 2019 by Bobby

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Aakash said:

sure he definitiely reached 0, i'm not disputing that. But what does highest consciousness mean after that, if everyone is at 0.

You actually have no idea what the Buddha realized.

Imagine that consciousness does not only come in degrees, but is also multi-dimensional.

From what I currently understand, you cannot map consciousness on a single axis. There are multiple axes.

[Aakash]

@Leo Gura so first off are there two different start points, or does this awakening path stem from the bottom, into a multitude 

because then your saying all practices give you different variations of nothingness, nothingingness or 0 is the point to me where the "i" and subject/object barrier dissapears.

at here the "mapping" stops, but actually now i think about it - since buddah nobodies tried to go further, they've always got there and felt the totality of it, its as you said, the problem is the totality of it , is so total it seems like its the finish line. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Aakash

[Bobby]

@Aakash this idea of a “total” or “100%” enlightenment is most likely fualty. It probably continues forever 

even if the human brain reaches it’s hypothetical  highest potential, evolution will produce brains with even greater capabilities 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Bobby

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Leo Gura so first off are there two different start points, or does this awakening path stem from the bottom, into a multitude 

Consciousness is technically infinite. It has no limits whatsoever and it can do just about anything. So be careful underestimating it or modeling it.

It doesn't even have a beginning or an end. There really isn't an "awakening path", rather there are an infinite number of different ways that consciousness can be and know itself. How deeply can it know itself? I have not hit any upper limit yet. My guess is it can know itself completely, but probably not while also maintaining the human form.

[Aakash]

WOAHHH OKAY I GOT YOU

YOUR TRYING TO SAY THERE ARE DIFFERENT CONSCIOUSNESS'S 

LOOOOOOOL your insane! 

your telling me you've experienced this for yourself

I'M MIND BLOWN, 

YOUR LITERALLY STATING 

one INFINITY  = (INFINITY)^infinity X (INFINITY)^infinity X (INFINITY)^infinity 

NOT 

one INFINITY = (INFINITY)^infinity

key:    ^      = to the power of

Edited June 12, 2019 by Aakash

[Leo Gura]

@Aakash No, not different consciousnesses. There is only 1 consciousness. But it can take an infinite number of states. The state it takes determines how deeply it knows itself. In some states it knows itself totally, in other states its as dumb as doorknob. And everything in between.

[Aakash]

@Leo Gura Yeah sorry that's what i meant, 

i meant different consciousness, as in different consciousnesses like variations 

but they're still just one consciousness 

see my edit for the mathematics of what i meant 

so are you saying these come from different ways of understanding methods to get back to the one consciousness 

for example self inquiry is different to meditiation is different to 5-meo 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Aakash said:

for example self inquiry is different to meditiation is different to 5-meo 

No

First and foremost the state of consciousness is determined by what we call physiology, DNA, and brain chemistry. All of these are relative things, but obviously a lobster has a totally different state of consciousness than a human. It's not just a matter of higher or lower. It's a totally different state. That state actually determines what a lobster is and what it can do.

You can think of it like different video game worlds. Each video game has its own unique world which is like one state. You can't map all video games on a single axis.

[DrewNows]

@Leo Gura when you’re stuck chasing 5-Meo Dmt it’s hard to know what is possible in your regular form ?

what are you searching for if states are infinite? Just saying...def listen to your body ?

the side effect of psychs is possibly limiting beliefs...

[Aakash]

@Leo Gura But i thought to some degree the animals for example , still had a consciousness that basically say "i", but after having the non dual experience today, i would venture to say that we are the only self aware species on the planet, meaning the "i" is a concept that we created, that gave us the possibility to become awakened as humans, as we have past and future. 

But this is something that i didn't get, like i said to my auntie, we went to the zoo and she basically said this lion is alone and is feeling sad and the zoo should have captured another lion as it must be feeling lonely. But i said to her the lion doesn't think, it has no sentence for I am hungry, i am feeling lonely. But she couldn't understand it what i was trying to get at... basically it doesn't have a sense of I. SO it doesn't think about being lonely, thats simply a projection you've added (but i never told her this) 

This being so, what didn't make sense to me was how they're communication features and survival insticts differ to ours, when they don't have a sense of "i", it means that if they're scared, they're scared for the time period they're feeling safe, as soon as they feel they're out of danger, it goes away instantly! and leaves no mark in the past or present, as these are human ideology again added. 

still i couldn't understand what made them want to survive as the distinct consciousness they are... but your telling me its because they live in a different consciousness state.. thats different to our human consciousness, so our human consciousness is perfect to allow us to be human, their particular consciousness state allows them to be their consciousness that gives them to be exactly perfect as their "BEING" SELF without a sense of self ,

But this is only an analogy your using, so your saying you accessed a totally different consciousness state, so this means you accessed a totally different state that was "non-human" in its make up, which i don't see as impossible because human itself is only a concept, when you enter the realms of absolute infinity, this is what i would of expected, you should be able to alter your consciousness at will, to the power of infinity, but you know that its not different as there is only one, still you play in infinity.

Edit: i'm not even sure i like the term "non-human" 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Aakash

[Arhattobe]

The I is essentially a mechanism born out of survival. Fear, and response to fear. Control mechanisms. In humans it just goes beyond the instinctual I. It takes conscious form. Intellectual form and so on. Basic non duality seed through the intellectual level of I yet the body and survival mechanisms still operate. 

Animals just don’t have the intellectual layers. They are certainly trapped in their survival mechanism. Fear and cravings. In fact they see nothing beyond it.

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

@Leo Gura when you’re stuck chasing 5-Meo Dmt it’s hard to know what is possible in your regular form ?

what are you searching for if states are infinite? Just saying...def listen to your body ?

By exploring various states you learn what consciousness is capable of, which helps you understand what it is.

Ultimately what you're searching for is a state of total omniscience, where everything is 100% understood. This would be the God state.

14 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Leo Gura But i thought to some degree the animals for example , still had a consciousness that basically say "i", but after having the non dual experience today, i would venture to say that we are the only self aware species on the planet, meaning the "i" is a concept that we created, that gave us the possibility to become awakened as humans, as we have past and future. 

But this is something that i didn't get, like i said to my auntie, we went to the zoo and she basically said this lion is alone and is feeling sad and the zoo should have captured another lion as it must be feeling lonely. But i said to her the lion doesn't think, it has no sentence for I am hungry, i am feeling lonely. But she couldn't understand it what i was trying to get at... basically it doesn't have a sense of I. SO it doesn't think about being lonely, thats simply a projection you've added (but i never told her this) 

This being so, what didn't make sense to me was how they're communication features and survival insticts differ to ours, when they don't have a sense of "i", it means that if they're scared, they're scared for the time period they're feeling safe, as soon as they feel they're out of danger, it goes away instantly! and leaves no mark in the past or present, as these are human ideology again added. 

still i couldn't understand what made them want to survive as the distinct consciousness they are... but your telling me its because they live in a different consciousness state.. thats different to our human consciousness, so our human consciousness is perfect to allow us to be human, their particular consciousness state allows them to be their consciousness that gives them to be exactly perfect as their "BEING" SELF without a sense of self ,

But this is only an analogy your using, so your saying you accessed a totally different consciousness state, so this means you accessed a totally different state that was "non-human" in its make up, which i don't see as impossible because human itself is only a concept, when you enter the realms of absolute infinity, this is what i would of expected, you should be able to alter your consciousness at will, to the power of infinity, but you know that its not different as there is only one, still you play in infinity.

Imagine that there is a state of consciousness in which you exist as a brick for 1 billion years.

Imagine that there is a state of consciousness in which you are alien existing in 11 dimensions.

Imagine that there is a state of consciousness in which you exist as all the books ever written by humans.

Imagine that there is a state of consciousness in which you exist as the color yellow.

Totally wacky stuff like that which is totally impossible from your current state of consciousness.