Is 5 meo dmt really a magic pill to enlightenment?

[tedens]

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[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, whoareyou said:

@Leo Gura  

In that case, do you consider yourself to be liberated?

Again, you are trying to frame this in a binary way, which I reject.

There are many degrees of awakening. I have some degree of it, not the highest degree, and I am not immune to all pain/suffering. Although there have been times when I was so conscious that pain and suffering were realized to be no different than pleasure. But the body/mind is still not stupid. It still prefers to avoid physical pain, and it still has various desires. Pain, suffering, and desire are really not obstacles when you realize what they are. They are perfectly natural and even good. The desire to eliminate all desire is itself rather delusional. What I've realized is to embrace desire rather than to demonize it.

It is perfectly okay if I desire sex, or even if I desire to murder someone. Who are you to say it's "wrong"? That would be ego judging.

In a sense, liberation just means that you realize that everything is perfect no matter how anything unfolds. So if you suffer, and you realize that's perfect, you are free of it even though pain is being felt.

You are trying to categorize people as "fully awake" but in practice this is very problematic. I don't know if anyone ever is "fully awake" all the time. From what I understand this isn't really possible as you could hardly function as a human at that point. I much prefer to think of it as a spectrum with dozens of degrees of awakeness with perhaps no lower or upper bound.

[Jkris]

@Leo Gura

This is what my understanding so for.

As long as one is bound by desires,pleasure seeking one is to suffer.They are not the permanent happiness.Why would a liberated soul go after desires,sex and other sense gratification when he is contented with Nothingness.

Desirelessness uncared of anything is real peace.

When you say when I have a desire to kill someone who are you to say it's wrong it's egos judgement but not acknowledging that the very desire to kill is a egoistic desire ?

Liberation is not realising everything is perfect.Liberation is realising things as they are.Everything is perfect is an illusion.Everything is just as they are.And we don't have any control over the rest and freedom from from illusion of control and not to worry about that is liberation.

Resistance is suffering.Pain is a pain resistance is suffering.But beyond a point  body mind cannot tollerate accept pain due to survival mechanism and hence suffering is inevitable when it comes to physical pain. 

 

[Leo Gura]

30 minutes ago, Jkris said:

@Leo Gura

Why would a liberated soul go after desires,sex and other sense gratification when he is contented with Nothingness.

Precisely because desire, sex, and gratification are identical to Nothingness. Why wouldn't you experience them? There is no why one way or the other. Making you totally free to do whatever.

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When you say when I have a desire to kill someone who are you to say it's wrong it's egos judgement but not acknowledging that the very desire to kill is a egoistic desire ?

When you are fully awake (so to speak) there is no such thing as the ego. So actually no desire is egotistical. All desire is just a natural occurrance. There are not good or bad desires from the Absolute perspective. This is Total Love: to Love all the "bad" stuff so much that it is no longer bad at all.

Such love is very radical and threatening to unawakened people because it interferes with survival.

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Liberation is not realising everything is perfect.Liberation is realising things as they are.Everything is perfect is an illusion.Everything is just as they are.

When you reach an even higher level of consciousness than you can presently imagine or have ever experienced, you will realize that EVERYTHING IS ABSOLUTELY PERFECT. This is Paradise and Nirvana. And it is liberation. You are liberated precisely because you realize that no matter what happens it is Absolute Perfection. So there is nothing to resist or worry about.

Reality is not simply Everything or neutrality. Reality is Absolutely Good. Period. It's not just good. It's THE BEST thing possible.

You have not reached this level of consciousness yet. It's very radical. But I can tell you 110% that it's the Truth. I wish one day you discover it.

[Gili Trawangan]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

It is perfectly okay if I desire sex, or even if I desire to murder someone. Who are you to say it's "wrong"? That would be ego judging.

@Leo Gura I'm not self-realized, so I can admit that from an absolute perspective you may even be right. I don't know. However, it dangerously sounds like zen devilry.

[Inliytened1]

This shall come with consciousness of Oneness and not before.  It is the unity of the form and the formlessness.  It is pure consciousness.

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Gili Trawangan said:

@Leo Gura I'm not self-realized, so I can admit that from an absolute perspective you may even be right. I don't know. However, it dangerously sounds like zen devilry.

Of course it does. Because it threatens your survival. Anything that threatens your survival you will label as evil. You cannot help it.

[Arhattobe]

As awakenings deepen they carry with them nuance & stability. Both of which you lack in your “trips”. You do not see reality clearly, and the black and white way which you see the world is just another delusion.

[Solace]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

When you are fully awake (so to speak) there is no such thing as the ego. So actually no desire is egotistical. All desire is just a natural occurrance. There are not good or bad desires from the Absolute perspective. This is Total Love: to Love all the "bad" stuff so much that it is no longer bad at all.

Such love is very radical and threatening to unawakened people because it interferes with survival.

Embodying this is where people miss the mark, attached to thoughts. But it’s as simple as KNOWING with all of your heart, beyond all doubts, that you (as everything) is perfect, and all (as you) is perfect.

This is directly transcending the ego, which is based upon a deep groundless knowing that we and the world are separate and inherently flawed as I had the privellage of being taught  

I myself have contemplated and reflected upon my life and I’ve seen that all the good things I’ve done has been when I felt Gods love most strongly. That I am useless without God’s Love because all of the most creative ideas I’ve had, and deep connections to other human beings, and life has occurred when my ego is surrendered to God. The unlimited creative energy of our souls can be expressed, including  the souls non-egoic desires that stem from wholeness, completeness and perfection; instead of egoic desires which stem from the deep inner knowing of being seperate and flawed as I mentioned.

Divine love, god, perfection is all there is and ever will be. As Ramana Maharshi said, just as all clothes are made of cotton, every form is perfection. This is soul talk, the mind will never be convinced of this, so transcend it, and it will be seen to have been another mask for God. All is God.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Solace

[Leo Gura]

40 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

As awakenings deepen they carry with them nuance & stability. Both of which you lack in your “trips”. You do not see reality clearly, and the black and white way which you see the world is just another delusion.

This is a true of the entire spiritual path.

The trips are just part of that path and the more one does the more one develops nuance and stability. Just like with any spiritual practice.

Not sure what you refer to with your "black & white" remark.

[Arhattobe]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It is perfectly okay if I desire sex, or even if I desire to murder someone. Who are you to say it's "wrong"? That would be ego judging

That’s one example. 

 

The Buddha always spoke of cravings and fears. Buddhahood is synonymous with the end of both. The eradication of the delusions brought forth by one’s tainted survival mechanism. The fundamental importance one places on it.

& it is most definitely possible.

All insights and understanding are tainted by fears and cravings. This needs to be understood otherwise we risk falling for the tricks of your our inner devil as you call it.

 

Saying it is all perfect from the absolute perspective is fine. Yet at the same time. Here are delusion and suffering. Identification and pain.

By rejecting “the bad and evil” with no understanding we create resistance, struggle pain and untruth.

Yet by pretending it is all perfect when all of our subconscious and body screams it is not we risk doing the same.

It is by understanding and nuance that we avoid both pitfalls.

the pitfalls of the rejectionist. The ascetic, and the one that can see beyond the senses.

There lies true growth.

[Preetom]

@Leo Gura

I am interested in your views on this one.

Do you think it's possible to permanently awaken by taking 5 meo constantly for a particular time? (Like 1 week-several months as long as it is needed)

Its like one takes 5 meo and stays in nondual cognition for 3 hours, then the moment he feels the slightest tinge of duality arising, he takes another dose...so and so forth. Basically lets say a month of nondual cognition every waking moment. Could this facilitate a permanent sinking of ego?

After all, ego is an unreal entity. It is merely a force of habit of rising and mistaking a body or POV as I. 

So the idea is, one remains in uninterrupted nondual cognition until one literally 'forgets' what it is like to have an ego and the correspoding dual perception.

In mechanism, it would be exactly like the process you described in your self inquiry video where one locks on nothingness/being for such a long time that the ego sinks into being once and for all and one literally forgets the distinction between duality and non duality.

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

That’s one example.

What I said is simply the case.

At the highest level, no wrong can be done.

Of course I don't recommend you go around murdering people. But if you do, that will be okay too.

That is literally the highest form of love. In the end all evil is you own creation. So you might as well love it.

I am not a Buddhist and I do not recognize moral norms because they are ultimately delusions.

Yes, what I am speaking of here is the Absolute "perspective" so to speak. Relatively we obey laws to produce a livable society.

Yes, Absolute Love is black & white by its very nature. There is zero room for not-love.

Perhaps you have not become conscious of Absolute Love? It's a radical thing. It does not hold back for Buddhist moral norms. Remember, when you see the Buddha, kill him

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@Leo Gura

I am interested in your views on this one.

Do you think it's possible to permanently awaken by taking 5 meo constantly for a particular time? (Like 1 week-several months as long as it is needed)

Its like one takes 5 meo and stays in nondual cognition for 3 hours, then the moment he feels the slightest tinge of duality arising, he takes another dose...so and so forth. Basically lets say a month of nondual cognition every waking moment. Could this facilitate a permanent sinking of ego?

That is what I'm attempting to demonstrate. Let's see if it works.

So far my ego has definitely been significantly reshaped after 35 trips.

But also I don't feel a need to take 5-MeO as often as you describe. That would be overkill.

My hypothesis is YES. But I'm willing to be proven wrong. That is the nature of scientific investigation.

Martin Ball claims to have done it. So if you believe him, that would be 1 point of corroboration.

The real problem is this: even if I succeed in doing it, who will believe me? Virtually no one. I will be called a deluded charlatan.

You see, science is not as easy as people think. It's a marketing problem and a culture war problem more so than a problem of digging up raw data. Digging up the raw data is the easy part. Convincing the mainstream to accept it as truth is the hard part. How many Buddhists will denounce me for using 5-MeO-DMT? Many. A Buddhists are usually the most tolerant ones.

[Arhattobe]

@Leo Gura Yet on the lowest level such a perspective will keep you from remaining in the highest level. 

Nuance.

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@Leo Gura Yet on the lowest level such a perspective will keep you from remaining in the highest level. 

Nuance.

We are not really in disagreement. I understand what you're pointing at. I think we are just stating the same thing in different ways.

I don't advocate devilsh behavior.

[Arhattobe]

?

[Key Elements]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is what I'm attempting to demonstrate. Let's see if it works.

So far my ego has definitely be significantly reshaped after 35 trips.

But also I don't feel a need to take 5-MeO as often as you describe. That would be overkill.

The bottom line is, it's your choice to do this. You know your path more than anyone else. But, it seems more complex than this. It's just as complex as Spiral Dynamics. For example, if you did not go through stage orange properly, you'll be stuck at green. If you hold onto certain aspects of orange, you'll be stuck at orange. In this case, if you get rid of your "ego" too quickly, you may miss out on something. In my case, for example, hypothetically speaking, if I learned about the 10 Ox Herding Pics, knew exactly what it is, and took 5meo right after that just because someone said it or encouraged me, I think I would have never thought about what is my life purpose path. I wouldn't know the exact components to it. It's not that simple.

[Preetom]

@Key Elements

You are like the only mod here who consistently fights with Leo ?

Kudos

 

[Key Elements]

3 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@Key Elements

You are like the only mod here who consistently fights with Leo ?

Kudos

 

Why do you think I'm fighting with him? Is it not ok to point out something?