Is 5 meo dmt really a magic pill to enlightenment?

[whoareyou]

3 hours ago, Enlightenment said:

@Inliytened1 What @whoareyou means is that by "enlightenment" 99% of people understand a lasting shift in your everyday experience of being you, like let's say Leo have a brother and both are doing 5-MeO today, then boom original Leo somehow got enlightened but his brother did not. Tomorrow original Leo will wake up in non-dual awareness without the self in his head etc. but his brother has come back to his original experience of the self after the trip and tomorrow will wake up with his default self-feeling + memory of the enlightenment experience that he had on 5-MeO  

@Leo Gura This is exactly what I meant ^^

Why do you not make this distinction, when majority of other spiritual teachers do? This doesn't just apply to psychedelics, but also to retreats.

Your definition of "enlightenment" becomes vastly different from everyone else. If you are going to go this way, then you should at least explain this to people.

I am not saying that you are wrong, or that the other way is right - but majority of other people, including Martin W ball - make a distinction between "enlightenment experience" and "enlightenment". 

To me, enlightenment = liberation, meaning it's a permanent shift. An enlightenment experience, would be a temporary shift.

 

[Inliytened1]

@whoareyou There isn't this one moment when all of a sudden as you put it 'actual enlightenment" happens.  There is no such thing.  Its a slow expansion of consciousness through becoming the Absolute.

[whoareyou]

@Inliytened1

There certainly is a point, when you begin to notice a permanent shift, and have a knowing that you are "liberated". This is according to the people who went through the entire process. 

Having a breakthrough experience, and feeling that you are enlightened - and then coming back down, is not the same thing. Which is why they refer it to as " enlightenment experience". I am not saying that those are pointless or that they somehow don't have any value, but when it comes to describing certain things, it's better to be very clear, as people have different definitions and make different distinctions.

I agree with you, but when it comes to describing experiences, I certainly have a different approach, and so do a lot of other people.

 

 

 

[Inliytened1]

@whoareyou yes there is a point where that shift happens.  Your right.

[tedens]

@whoareyou .. but when it comes to terminology, the time will come. Note that spirituality is in its infancy.

[Inliytened1]

@tedens we can have our own perspective.  That is the. beauty.  I  give each deep experience/realization equal value as i have experienced it directly.   

 

[tedens]

@Inliytened1 each perspective is beautiful from the nondual state. but the dual state requires divisions.

[Inliytened1]

@whoareyou one thing to add though..the difference is you never come back down the same.  So when you have the higher realizations your consciousness shifts.  So the later shifts that bring you to liberation were the result or combination of the earlier shifts.   Thats why they are all One and Enlightenment is One thing.

Hope that makes sense.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Inliytened1

[tedens]

Yes, bull eye.

[whoareyou]

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@whoareyou one thing to add though..the difference is you never come back down the same.  So when you have the higher realizations your consciousness shifts.  So the later shifts that bring you to liberation were the result or combination of the earlier shifts.   Thats why they are all One and Enlightenment is One thing.

Hope that makes sense.

I totally agree with you. As I suspected, we were just arguing semantics. It's just when you talk to most people, you have to be conscious of what their definitions are - to ensure that everyone understands each other.

[Leo Gura]

@whoareyou I reject any attempt to make enlightenment into a binary thing. It is not binary. I do not like it when people try to make it binary. To me it always comes in degrees and also with facets.

What I have become conscious of goes beyond anything that I have ever heard any teacher teach. I don't care how masterful they claim to be. So I cannot listen to any teachers any more. Because there are levels of consciousness beyond all teachers and teachings. There are levels which cannot be spoken or taught in any way. And there is no method for reaching them.

There is no higher authority than God. And you are it. So any authority figure you turn to is actually delusion. All gurus and masters are a thing you are hallucinating. You are truly the only guru in existence! So watch out who you give your power to.

YOU ARE GOD! Whatever you imagine becomes true for you.

[Inliytened1]

@whoareyou that's not what you were saying.  You were implying that earlier experiences compared to latter ones were not enlightenment.  I am saying they all cause shifts in consciousness.  So no shift is greater than another.

[whoareyou]

@Leo Gura  

In that case, do you consider yourself to be liberated?

Do you consider "liberation" or "enlightenment" to be the end of psychological suffering? 

If you stopped using 5-MEO or any psychedelics at this point, would you be able to remain at the level of consciousness at which you are now?

It's one thing to have many deep insights, but another thing is to embody/integrate those things.

I am deeply curious.

[Inliytened1]

@whoareyou if you can't see that by now you are blind. 

[whoareyou]

18 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@whoareyou that's not what you were saying.  You were implying that earlier experiences compared to latter ones were not enlightenment.  I am saying they all cause shifts in consciousness.  So no shift is greater than another.

No that is not what I was saying. I never said that the early experiences made no difference. I was talking about a specific nuance, which you still don't seem to understand.

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

@whoareyou if you can't see that by now you are blind. 

I don't understand what is your problem. Maybe go and take a break, I am asking legit questions here.

[Inliytened1]

@whoareyou no..you thought there is this moment where OMG i am actually enlightened happens!  Because it's a fantasy in your mind.  Have you had any direct mystical experiences and if so what did they reveal?  I'm asking another legit question too.  And you failed to answer my last.

[whoareyou]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

@whoareyou no..you thought there is this moment where OMG i am actually enlightened happens!  Because it's a fantasy in your mind.  Have you had any direct mystical experiences and if so what did they reveal?  I'm asking another legit question too.  And you failed to answer my last.

This is not true, I have explained myself over 10 times, go back and read what I wrote. Even another user provided you a perfect analogy. It is not my problem that your English language comprehension is so poor, or that you are just too stubborn to see what I said. I will not continue to waste anymore of my time on you.

[Inliytened1]

@whoareyou didn't think so.  Because you can't answer simple questions.

[tedens]

@Inliytened1 One thing, did you wonder what would happen if you took 5 meo?

[Inliytened1]

@tedens that would be a hell of a thing