Who's Interested In Conscious Politics?

[Scholar]

2 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

@Scholar

It matters because we can't avoid politics. But we can become more and more conscious of our political views and values.

 

3 hours ago, Shiva said:

It's important because it affects everyone. Without politics your understanding of how the world works will be very limited.

Yes but what if Leo wanted to rape and kill people, what if that was his true authentic desire? Why would politics be important then? Why focus on things like happiness and joy if we could also focus on misery and suffering? Is it only because our ego was constructed in a way to do so?

Edited June 14, 2019 by Scholar

[Truth Addict]

@Scholar

That's just insane!

Why would anyone want to kill others?

Wars do not start because people just want to kill others, but actually quite the opposite. Wars usually happen because people want to protect themselves and their loved ones.

Nobody wants to kill others unless they are threatening to them or to their loved ones.

If we're all one team, who is the winning team?

Anyway, assuming that the leader is crazy and wants to kill people. Do you think that conscious followers will still follow a psychopath?

Edited June 14, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Truth Addict]

@Scholar

The ego is a genius design. It's good for all through good for the individual. Because individual is one, and one is all.

The ego is always trying to get better and attain more, without it realising that it's doing a service for others as well and for reality in general.

That's how reality creates actively. Creation happens through illusion, and Truth provides the energy.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Shiva said:

Well, there's no reason to be happy and joyful. You can be miserable if you prefer. No problem with that.

But tell me, if you had the choice to be happy and blissful right now or miserable and suffering, which would you choose? 

For me it's an easy decision...

It's an easy decision because of the ego. But there is no morality, there is nothing wrong with anything whatsoever. Our preferences are just preferences. What if someone prefers to make others suffer? What if they are fully conscious of what they are doing, and still prefer it? What if they like making themselves suffer, or simply do not care because the bigger picture makes it irrelevant.

If reality is perfect as is why be so alarmed when someone actually embraces that attitude to the fullest? Especially when they desire to create suffering, or if Leo decided to create a cult, why would he not do so if he wanted to and was okay with all the consequences?

 

[Truth Addict]

@Scholar

You're thinking backwards.

No ego ever wants other egos to suffer, because;

• Others suffering means the possibility of one's suffering, since it shows how weak the individual is.
• Others suffering decreases the ability of one's joy, because when others suffer, they tend to spread suffering, and vice-versa when they are happy.
• Joy multiplies through abundance. When everyone is happy, their energy radiates and grows outside. Happiness is contagious.

All of that is known and obvious to the ego, and it's all embedded and programmed deep in our psyches. However, we're in a phase of getting to know ourselves as egos, and it's confusing for everyone. That's the only true reason behind all of humanity problems.

Ta-da!

Edited June 14, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Scholar]

4 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@Scholar

You're thinking backwards.

No ego ever wants other egos to suffer, because;

• Others suffering means the possibility of one's suffering, since it shows how weak the individual is.
• Others suffering decreases the ability of one's joy, because when others suffer, they tend to spread suffering, and vice-versa when they are happy.
• Joy multiplies through abundance. When everyone is happy, their energy radiates and grows outside.

All of that is known and obvious to the ego, and it's all embedded and programmed deep in our psyches. However, we're in a phase of getting to know ourselves as egos, and it's confusing for everyone. That's the only true reason behind all of humanity problems.

Ta-da!

That sounds like egoic justification for moralizing. You still make judgements over things being better than others. There is no reason to align your actions with some deeper want that you are unaware of, as all is perfect as is. Even if Leo doesn't want others to suffer, he can still choose to cause suffering if he prefers.

Now imagine if there was an intelligent enlightened insect species without empathy, would you go and tell then not to enslave us because they don't truly want to? Your perspective seems really human centric and lacks diversity of perspective.

 

Don't forget, you already rape, murder and create suffering in others, fully consciously and willingly, and you enjoy doing so. If that was no the case, suffering, rape and murder would not exist. It's simply the ego which cannot handle this truth.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Scholar

[tenta]

Ofc egos want others to suffer and it can come up with a wide array of justifications for wanting others to suffer, no point in denying this

[Scholar]

4 minutes ago, Shiva said:

@Scholar 

In the ultimate sense there's nothing wrong with that.

But no matter how enlightened you become you're still here and prefer not to suffer. And if you truly realize that everything is one, your "ego" expands to not just include the this one body but all of existence. You become Selfish with a capital S

So, you prefer not to suffer and you prefer that other beings don't suffer either.

Hence we need rules, good politicians and systems.

That seems incoherent and more of a wish than truth. The Selfish with a capital S created a world full of unimaginable suffering, and it is Good with a capital G. You have created all of the wars, all of the unthinkable things that happen, you did it with infinite intelligence and consciousness. You did it and you will continue doing so, and now you claim that you prefer for yourself not to suffer? You are contradicting your own godhood.

The ego doesn't want to suffer, but the Selfless Self wants the ego not to want to suffer, and it wants the ego to suffer despite not wanting to suffer. It is Divine Will.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Scholar

[Truth Addict]

17 minutes ago, Scholar said:

That sounds like egoic justification for moralizing. You still make judgements over things being better than others.

I would call it God's judgement and God's morality. A judgement with full acceptance and a morality with all love.

17 minutes ago, Scholar said:

There is no reason to align your actions with some deeper want that you are unaware of, as all is perfect as is. Even if Leo doesn't want others to suffer, he can still choose to cause suffering if he prefers.

Of course! THERE IS NO REASON! That's the catch. You think there should be a reason for things to be done? Well, guess what? There shouldn't.

God is Good, that's what you're not seeing yet. And since the ego is God, the ego is Good too. And that's not an egoic justification. That's how it actually is.

Everything is fine. All the evil is fine. That's how God sees his creations. The evil is just a part of the plan for the greater good, and clearly it's less than 1%. You forgot the other 99% of God that is pure Goodness even for the ego.

You are the one who is judging evil without even knowing it, buddy.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Truth Addict said:

I would call it God's judgement and God's morality.

Of course! THERE IS NO REASON! That's the catch. You think there should be a reason for things to be done? Well, guess what? There isn't.

God is Good, that's what you're not seeing yet. And since the ego is God, the ego is Good too. And that's not an egoic justification. That's how it actually is.

Everything is fine. All the evil is fine. That's how God sees his creations. The evil is just a part of the plan for the greater good, and clearly it's less than 1%. You forgot the other 99% of God that is pure Goodness even for the ego.

You are the one who is judging evil without even knowing it, buddy.

There is no evil, that very concept is delusional. Evil is not simply "fine", it is perfect. If you were to be tortured for all of eternity, it would be perfect, not simply "fine", not simple "Not evil", it would be literally perfect. It would be Goodness itself.

It's not 99% of God that is pure Goodness, but 100%. The 1% is your ego making judgements.

 

 

1 minute ago, Shiva said:

No it didn't.

Selfish with a captial S means you realize that everything is one and it's you. Because it's all you, you want nothing but the best for it.

Selfishness with a capital S is the ultimate selflessness because in the end selfishness goes full-circle.

People like Jesus and the Buddha might have had that level of selfishness. 

How does anything you say contradict that God is all suffering? Jesus and Buddha behaved how they behaved because they were human beings, and egoless human beings tend to behave that way. And egoless insect might not behave that way. An egoless psychopath might not behave that way. And it would be Good. You are still making it out to be as if Jesus was any better, more godly, more valid than Adolf Hitler. Both of them were equally Godly and Divine, both of them were the Will of God.

[Truth Addict]

@Scholar

Are you actually directly conscious of what you just said? Because it seems like you aren't. It seems like you're logically convinced with what you said. Although it's fine but it's not like truth.

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Shiva said:

Believe me every creature has an ego. No ego, no survival, no creature.

I was talking if there was an insect that was egoless it would not behave in the Jesus-esk fashion.

Just now, Shiva said:

From god's perspective this may be true. But do you have god's perspective 24/7? I don't. So I really prefer having jesus around than Hitler.

Yes but that's what you prefer. Others prefer to rape people and create cults. This was my question, if Leo, with God's perspective 24/7, wanted to create a sex-slave cult, and was fully conscious of doing so, why wouldn't he? He would! And it would be Good. And even a fully delusional, egoic person who does the same would also be Good.

Your preferences are what is so egoic. You say Jesus is better than Hitler when you know it isn't true. You deliberately delude yourself.

[Shadowraix]

55 minutes ago, Scholar said:

It's an easy decision because of the ego. But there is no morality, there is nothing wrong with anything whatsoever. Our preferences are just preferences. What if someone prefers to make others suffer? What if they are fully conscious of what they are doing, and still prefer it? What if they like making themselves suffer, or simply do not care because the bigger picture makes it irrelevant.

If reality is perfect as is why be so alarmed when someone actually embraces that attitude to the fullest? Especially when they desire to create suffering, or if Leo decided to create a cult, why would he not do so if he wanted to and was okay with all the consequences?

 

Liking to make yourself suffer isn't suffering. That's pleasure. Actual suffering you can't enjoy because by its very nature suffering is something unpleasant and the ego avoids that at all costs to maximize survival. 

And a conscious person will think of the collective instead of just individual. 

Even people who harm others a conscious person will not demonize, but it doesn't mean they'll let them willy nilly inflict on others. Such is the sandbox of reality. 

You can say everything is perfect but that is all inclusive. Including the conflict between those that inflict and prevent suffering. Including the desire to reduce it. What wins is perfect. 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Shadowraix

[Nivsch]

@Leo Gura it will be also about helping people (and my country) move up the spiral? ?

[Scholar]

14 minutes ago, Shiva said:

I guess to God, yes maybe. But to me as ego (which is also part of god) it wouldn't be so great.

I think there's no escaping it. You may be fully enlightened and "ego-less", but as long as you are still here as a human being you have to make a decision about what you wanna do with your time here.

Creating a sex-slave cult is one option. But if you have the slightest bit of emotional control and see how this backfires, you probably wouldn't do it. There are probably wiser and more pleasant ways to spend the remaining days of your life.

Yes, of course. If you want to spend the rest of your life with Hitler, go for it! I won't stop you.

To me Jesus seems more fun to be around. PLUS he has the nicer bread! 

Of course not. If you think the idea of selfishness going full-circle could stem from me, you haven't opened any spiritual book...

The ego has no choice in the matter. It will spend eternity as Hitler, with Hilter, with Jesus and as Jesus. There will be all possible experience either way. You will kill yourself, you will live happily, you will become a psychotic murderer. You will will for all of eternity, whatever you will do will not absolve you from experiencing that which you try to avoid.

You will suffer all there is to suffer and you already have. You can dislike Hitler as much as you want, you will be his victim, you already have and you will be forever.

 

Whether you suffer this life or not, there are infinite lifes in which you will suffer, as the same person you are right now. Every choice is a delusion, to every possibility there exist the opposite possibility and all that is between.

 

It's even worse, you already have experienced all there is to experience! You are eternal, there is nothing you have not already experienced, lived or done.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Scholar

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Shiva said:

Right now I'm not at a level of embodiment where I am indifferent about being with Jesus or Hitler.

And that too is perfect.

Perfection doesn't actually come from perfect embodiment but from realizing that perfection is always the case no matter how you feel or what you do. This radical level of self-love is the cure to all problems because it does not need to cure anything, it just accepts it.

It's very counter-intuitive to how the ego imagines perfection. The ego's version of perfection is actually hell because it imagines a state in the future where all conditions will be favorable to it. And this will never come, causing great suffering.

Perfection is an Absolute. It is NOW! NOW! NOW! It is EVERYTHING!

But politics is a relative affair.

[Ar_Senses]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Perfection is an Absolute. It is NOW! NOW! NOW! It is EVERYTHING!

Wait wait wait wait wait, Leo!

I guess you’ve made a mistake here:

Perfection is Absolute, BUT... Except those situations when you want to fart, but suddenly shit in your pants.

If anybody doubt about it — don’t believe me, just took 27,4 mg of 5-MeO-DMT and genuinely ask yourself about it. What you’ll know will be shocking!

?

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Shiva said:

This definitely sounds good on paper and I might've felt a sense of totality and perfection during peak experiences, but after some time, everyday-life comes knocking at the door again... So, isn't deeper embodiment of the experience what I might be lacking?

Of course if you are not conscious then no amount of words can help you. But by chasing consciousness you cut yourself off from the very perfection which you are seeking.

It's the classic paradox of spiritual seeking.

How do you walk a path which has zero steps? And yet you would be a fool not to walk it.

So in practice we must do some kind of practices.

[Cocolove]

It's great you are doing this series, this election will be my first chance to vote and I want to do it right

[Truth Addict]

4 hours ago, tenta said:

Ofc egos want others to suffer and it can come up with a wide array of justifications for wanting others to suffer, no point in denying this

That's not true. At least not for me.

When an ego is fully satisfied, it will only spread love and happiness.