Who's Interested In Conscious Politics?

[Revolutionary Think]

 

   http://sethf.com/essays/major/libstupid.php

[Leo Gura]

41 minutes ago, andyjohnsonman said:

What is the difference between lobbying and bribery? It seems the same to me.

That is a big problem.

Although it is possible to lobby without paying money or using other corrupt ways.

You can't really stop groups from lobbying government. That's part of democracy. But they should not be able to influence using money or other gifts.

[Leo Gura]

@Shiva Firstly, European regulations seem to be stronger than US regulations.

Secondly, the lobbyist corruption problem is enormous and sneaky in the US. Corporations give millions of dollars of donations to influence elections and policies. It is legalized bribery via corporate PACs, fundraisers, think tanks, donations, gifts, lunches, dinners, golf, etc, etc.

And it does not stop there. Corporate lobbyists actually get hired into government and when they leave government they go right back into the corporation and consult them on all the best ways to lobby government. It's the revolving door. Right now Trump has appointed the biggest lobbyists to head the regulating agencies like the Department of Education, the EPA, the FCC, etc. Their goal is specifically to dismantle regulations on their industries.

Ajit Pai, the guy who killed net neutrality was Verizon's biggest lobbyist against net neutrality. Now he runs the FCC. It's absurd. The biggest oil company lobbyist now runs the EPA.

[Emeline]

@Revolutionary Think

I don’t know why you have chosen Revolutionary Think as your pseudo, apparently for mysterious reasons because you do not seem to know a lot about political revolutions around the world but anyway ...

I would like you to understand that the branch of libertarianism you are describing is a very isolated one ( exists mainly/ only in the U.S ) and is pretty much completely cut off from its roots... The only theory they have heard about is the one from Stirner I guess ( if they have ever read/heard about anything) so basically you are trying to prove libertarianism is stupid whereas you know nothing about it, nothing about the Libertopias that have existed and exist in the world nothing about anarchy history theories and thinkers ... You say libertarians do no want taxes or government but this is very wrong most of them want to choose how they are taxed and what are the taxes used for this is very different in case you do not notice ... They want a government as well, they just want to have a great control/ power over it to avoid bribery corruption and so on ... 

Don’t you think that instead of despising those poor deluded libertarians you’d better learn about it yourself and prove them libertarianism in the world is very different from what they think/you think it is  ? I am  sure you would be very surprised ... It doesn’t look like more of a religion/a sectarian ideology than capitalism or communism, for sure, you are the ignorant one here...On the contrary libertarians theories are very open and workable  that is one of the reasons why you have the most deluded crazy libertarians in your country ... That and the result of intense brainwashing about communism and socialism and absolutely no knowledge of political history in Europe is how  your delusional crazy American libertarians have been created...What you have written has nothing to do with true libertarianism at least you should know that ...

[CreamCat]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

And it does not stop there. Corporate lobbyists actually get hired into government and when they leave government they go right back into the corporation and consult them on all the best ways to lobby government. It's the revolving door. Right now Trump has appointed the biggest lobbyists to head the regulating agencies like the Department of Education, the EPA, the FCC, etc. Their goal is specifically to dismantle regulations on their industries.

Ajit Pai, the guy who killed net neutrality was Verizon's biggest lobbyist against net neutrality. Now he runs the FCC. It's absurd. The biggest oil company lobbyist now runs the EPA.

That's called regulatory capture by professional takers, as opposed to product makers. I expect it to happen eventually.

Competition keeps large entities in check. Competition between governments. Competition between corporations. Competition between old industry and new industry.

Edited July 23, 2019 by CreamCat

[Revolutionary Think]

@Emeline which country are you from? 

[Emeline]

@Revolutionary Think France 

[Revolutionary Think]

@Emeline I think this explains it then 

    

[Forestluv]

@Leo Gura I think this may be a good example of the dynamics you describe. 

Below is a clip from a senate confirmation hearing of a Raytheon defense contractor lobbyist for the position of secretary of defense. Elizabeth Warren described how the current structure allows for potential conflicts of interest since a loophole would allow the secretary to personally engage with Raytheon while secretary of defense. Warren asks if the potential secretary would be willing to distance himself from Raytheon defense contracting for a period of time related to his position as a defense secretary (as other secretaries have been contractually  required to do).

To me, the basic essence came across as  impersonal principles of ethics and conflict of interest.  Yet the republicans in the hearing were strongly reactionary and personalized it - saying that this nominee is a man of integrity and that Warren is rude by calling him dishonest. The chairman even apologized for the terrible treatment he received from Warren.

To me, this seems like a collective ego at play and this type of personification can be a distraction from the underlying issue that we need structural frameworks to discourage conflict of interest. Erosion of that framework allows for corruption and dysfunctional government.

 

[Shadowraix]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can't really stop groups from lobbying government. That's part of democracy. But they should not be able to influence using money or other gifts.

Because it aids their survival and most people are always biased towards that yeah?

[Emeline]

@Revolutionary Think

oh well yes it explains it very well thank you ... it is even worse than what I thought ... Big corporates  stole our word and turned it into the opposite concept basically ... So that American would be too  confused to ever be able to know/understand its true meaning ... Thank you  I understand now, I kind of knew there must have been some brainwashing going on there, but the true history of American libertarianism is even worse than what I thought it was ... Big corporate are monsters ... 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Emeline said:

Big corporate are monsters ... 

Careful. If only life were so simple.

Corporations are necessary, a vital part of society, and they feed you many benefits and goods.

The issue is one of right balance, not a blanket demonization of corporations. Corporations evolve in their level of development and consciousness just like humans.

There are Red corporations, Blue, Orange, Green, Yellow, etc.

[Emeline]

@Leo Gura You are right I know we need corporations ... They could be yellow or green but most of the time they are orange and the ones who stole the word libertarianism from us were orange devilry like Monsanto ... And corporations like Monsanto are pure devilry  and exploitative monsters destroying the planet ... Corporations evolve in their level of development and consciousness...well maybe but it is VERY slow, does a corporation like Monsanto really evolved in any better ways since 1945? I am not sure ...

[Revolutionary Think]

@Emeline Now we're getting somewhere. This is conscious Politics right here no name calling and no attacking and having a decent conversation. I'd like to know more about the roots of European Libertarianism because until now since there is so much damn propaganda and devilry in my country these pseudo American Libertarian Corporate suck ups have completely hijacked the word and are using it to attack everyone who disagrees with them as "being anti freedom" I'd really like to know more about European Libertarianism and maybe I'll understand how America has bastardized the idea so much to the point where devilry like this happens. 

 

[Angelo John Gage]

I tell you what, I am hopeful that @Leo Gura will present some Conscious Politics policies in his last video. That would be interesting to see. I believe he mentioned he would? Either way, that would be a PRACTICAL step to get those ideas out in the public, especially IF they are new and not left vs right partisan ideas.

 

Edited July 24, 2019 by Angelo John Gage

[Shadowraix]

11 minutes ago, Angelo John Gage said:

I tell you what, I am hopeful that @Leo Gura will present some Conscious Politics policies in his last video. That would be interesting to see. I believe he mentioned he would? Either way, that would be a PRACTICAL step to get those ideas out in the public, especially IF they are new and not left vs right partisan ideas.

 

It would probably be a lot of green stuff relating to policies from people like Bernie and/or Yang.

Green seems to be the next natural step.

[Angelo John Gage]

@Shadowraix  indeed. But then we have to eliminate the bad policies those two have, because their entire platform isn't perfect either. I'm a big fan of taking what works, (from whatever stage) and discarding what doesn't (from whatever stage)

[RichardY]

@Revolutionary Think

Pre-Revolutionary War Libertarianism. Has it's roots in Whiggism.

Contemporary Libertarianism. Divorces God from Liberalism and runs into a subject/object duality. Ayn Rands Objectivism. Von Mises Subjective Theory of Value.

[Revolutionary Think]

Never heard of Whiggism before. 

[Angelo John Gage]

@RichardY @Revolutionary Think  would these people be the considered the first "Whiggers" 

(drum break)