Who's Interested In Conscious Politics?

[Leo Gura]

The Chinese government censors the entire web. LOL. So yeah, they suck.

[Rilles]

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The Chinese government censors the entire web. LOL. So yeah, they suck.

China has made quite a huge leap in just a 100 years going from being ”slaves” to the Qing dynasty and then ”slaves” to Mao, Its not a perfect society but they are on their way for sure. They were basically peasants just a 100 years ago. 

[mandyjw]

 I finished the video today, I thought it was really good and a necessary reminder of how easy it is to fall into the trap of feeling like you're "above" politics because you've evolved beyond getting easily triggered by opposing views or events. Once you have an understanding of how reality is created, having conscious focus on or attention to politics seems very necessary. I believe that just the intention and desire to move toward something better and paying attention itself is the most important thing. An understanding of spiral dynamics and having compassion and acceptance for people where they are seems like the foundation for knowing what action to take. Right now I feel lost in not knowing what exactly that action is, so the temptation to put my head in the sand is strong. You definitely brought to light a lot of my entitlement I feel towards the government, and I don't mean the type of entitlement that Republicans like to talk about. 

 

[Truth Addict]

I haven't finished the video yet. But my main objection wasn't addressed:

Given the fact that I'm not gonna live forever, why should I care about politics? I could die after 10 years of hard work in politics trying to evolve society, let alone dying tomorrow, or even tonight. I mean my hard work will not pay off until after I die, so all of my work is in vain.

And no, you are all of humanity is not the answer.

As for raising the quality of my life, it's not a big deal for me. I've seen a lot and suffered a lot. I live right now by very low standards, and those standards I don't even consider necessary. I don't care a lot about survival anymore. I live mostly for joy.

Still, brilliant video for the ones who are interested in politics. It should be taught in schools.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Apparition of Jack]

@Truth Addict What makes you think your hard work won't pay off until you die? In fact if you're serious about whatever it is you're aiming towards you should see results within even just a couple of years. 

[DrewNows]

@Truth Addict it is not convincing that you need, forget obligation and should statements, it’s more of a why not? Less suffering in the world. Participation in society is simply an expression of your love, respect and gratitude for existing 

 

[Truth Addict]

5 minutes ago, Apparation of Jack said:

@Truth Addict What makes you think your hard work won't pay off until you die? In fact if you're serious about whatever it is you're aiming towards you should see results within even just a couple of years. 

I don't see the point of even trying for several reasons:

• I could die sooner than a couple of years.
• I could get killed trying to achieve my dreams.
• I will certainly create more suffering for all of society, since my movement is against the mainstream.
• All manipulation is egoic, thus cannot solve the initial problem which is delusion.
• Mankind is the bullshitting animal. Ultimately, we don't need any of the things we think we need right now (including science, schools, spirituality, governments, etc...). But that will never be accepted until devilry/illusion runs its course maybe millennia from now. We only need those things right now because we're still highly deluded.
• Me creating a new political party is just me creating a division, which will certainly create disturbances in the short term, and may still continue to create disturbances in the long term.
• I have minor criticisms of Leo's video, but I won't address them, maybe until the series is finished.

@DrewNows I already do that all the time (can't escape it), without me knowing and without buying into any ideology, cuz that's my nature.

[Apparition of Jack]

@Truth Addict Honest question, why are you even alive? It seems like you don't want to do anything at all@Truth Addict

[Truth Addict]

1 minute ago, Apparation of Jack said:

@Truth Addict Honest question, why are you even alive? It seems like you don't want to do anything at all@Truth Addict

I don't know. Life is beautiful.

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

Given the fact that I'm not gonna live forever, why should I care about politics? 

For the same reason your heart cells care about pumping blood to your brain cells. 

[DrewNows]

@Truth Addict connection will lead you to share and expand your wisdom in one form or another. At some point there may be the desire for awareness of politics, but you’re definitely right in not forcing it  

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Rilles said:

China has made quite a huge leap in just a 100 years going from being ”slaves” to the Qing dynasty and then ”slaves” to Mao, Its not a perfect society but they are on their way for sure. They were basically peasants just a 100 years ago. 

That is of course a very good point.

All progress is relative to one's past position.

But still, China's authoritarian features are hard to ignore. They have some serious structural problems. Chinese people cannot even vote! That is not sustainable and that is not conscious.

3 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

Just watched the video. Very insightful.

@Leo Gura I find absolutely hilarious the way you push analysis far superior to people who've been building their whole career, as such as in physics or here in political science, knowing that these are all just subdomains of interest for you. 

How did you build such a transversal mastery on that specific topic btw? I don't recall seeing much political content on your booklist? Who and what ressources influenced your analysis ? Are you pulling just most of them from your own personal insights or are you also standing here a bit on the shoulder of giants? Perhaps Ken Wilber has given you some nice tools?

That is thanks to the power of holistic big picture thinking. It's precisely because I don't over-specialize in any one field that I am able to see a much bigger picture than most experts and professors. Specialization comes at the cost of wisdom and vision. I sacrifice technical accuracy for big picture understanding. Experts and professionals do the opposite.

Politics cannot really be understood properly without a deep understanding of epistemology, ideology, cults, metaphysics, nondualty, spirituality, consciousness, philosophy, sociology, psychology, science, religion, language, ego, devilry, Spiral Dynamics, developmental psychology, relativism, and history.

Rather than reading a lot of political theory, I spend a lot of time studying human beings, especially their collective behaviors. If you do that long enough without being ideological yourself, you will start to see how the whole game works. It's all about the mind clinging to various positions and refusing to acknowledge the bias and partiality of its own perspective. Without a deep understanding of epistemology there cannot be a deep understanding of politics.

2 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

I haven't finished the video yet. But my main objection wasn't addressed:

Given the fact that I'm not gonna live forever, why should I care about politics? I could die after 10 years of hard work in politics trying to evolve society, let alone dying tomorrow, or even tonight. I mean my hard work will not pay off until after I die, so all of my work is in vain.

By that logic, why should you raise a family? Why should you start a work project? Why should you start a video game? Why should you drive to the grocery store? Why should you start having sex?

Just as you're about to pull your dick out to have sex an airplane might crash through your roof and kill you.

Maybe you should just curl up into a little ball in the corner of your room and wait for death to take you?

There is never any guarantee that hard work will payoff before you die.

If you're asking, "But what's in it for me?!!!" you've already fallen into the greatest trap: selfishness.

[Rilles]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But still, China's authoritarian features are hard to ignore. They have some serious structural problems. Chinese people cannot even vote! That is not sustainable and that is not conscious.

Absolutely! The sad thing is alot of Chinese are so bought into the dictatorship that the whole collective might have to take a leap for a high-consciousness person to become the leader. There is so much fear that noone wants to rock the boat... you might just disappear in the night. Like Falun Gong members...

[Truth Addict]

10 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

For the same reason your heart cells care about pumping blood to your brain cells. 

I get your point that we're all connected. But it's still not convincing for me. I mean I could do evil and still be connected and absolutely good, because Goodness is inevitable. Perhaps if I become too much of a burden on life, natural evolution will automatically discard me, but whatever.

@DrewNows I agree. Maybe politics is just not for me (especially right now). Not to say that I can't learn about it, cuz I certainly can and will.

@Leo Gura LOL. That logic is sick. I don't mean that.

I don't have to do any of the stuff you mentioned. But I will certainly do all of them when they're available. When not, then why struggle for them? Why struggle if I don't have a strong desire to fulfill?

That being said, maybe the answer is because I don't have a real political effect on my current situation, since I live in a third-world country?

As for the "what's in it for me?" question, I don't think anyone is 100% free of selfishness. After all, my wish to fulfill my desires in changing the world for the better is also partly selfish. So, I'm clear on that point, I'm not looking for material selfish results.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Truth Addict

[ValiantSalvatore]

I liked the new episode, I asked a friend who finished studying political science she explained the same thing to me Leo did with Athens and Greek and how it was back then. For instance most women where slaves and most men between the ages 25-39 where forced to participate in votings and in the political discourse in Greece / Athens. 

She also explained various sociological aspects, but nothing including consciouness. I gave some examples with Oshos cult how that has been partially done in the past trying to build a "conscious" community, but that was somehow dismissed. 

@Leo Gura
China is amazing! The gap between the rich and poor is ridiculous I never saw so many rolls royces and masaratis but especially rolls royces in Beijing. In our office they called the "water guy" who brought in water bottles giant, yes that was his actual job he brought water bottles for the water cooler. I have no idea how they do it in larger officies, but that just seemed odd. Since he had a weird carriage.

I don't know exactly what happend after Mao, yet a pragmatist called Deng Xiao Ping rose to power and gave the people means to do proper agriculture and techniques how to farm, because Mao forced the farmers to melt their tools iron etc. Just to push the economy and help China to become a world leader. After that they had a lot of famine and millions IIRC died because of this. 

The social structure of China is way to evolved for the westerners, natural compassion and fialial piety etc. + their history with empires and women and men roles etc. Is very different from the individualistic west. People are a lot more naturally more compassionate and care about their neighbours they truly are holding together. Yet, they see the goverment as God that is what my supervisor told me as I asked about their belives about God and such and for instance if people really ask their parents instead of how was I made how do I grow ? Which is more process oriented etc. (Besides the women and men role which is not very evolved yet , but the way people treat each other is more compassionate and the elderly for instance are able to take care of themselves just because there are some small strucutres like parks or workout things for elderly and the culture obviously playing board games etc outside you can find them everywhere and people eating at night on the streets with some tasty street food) I lived still in a very westerner district called DongZhiMen in Beijing, buying breed in the morning was already and adventure , especially going by subway to work. 

Still, they don't have any social security or health care if you are lucky the company provides you with that, the goverment as far as I know does not do that. Since, historically the kids were your health security, social security and or rent.


Also when talking about politics there are think tanks which are research institutes which create biased or only positive evidence for oil companies and for simplisities sake lobbiests. It's not very objective and more focused on profit and the private sector.

Edited July 17, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[Leo Gura]

@ValiantSalvatore China is stage Blue/Orange on the Spiral. They've got a long way to go.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Leo Gura The youth is quite Orange/Green a bit or normal orange. 

Yet, yes most are blue/orange with some the elderly seeming to be quiet red sometimes. Beijing even has some green elements mostly through foreigners living there. 

Edited July 17, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[Rilles]

4 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

@Leo Gura The youth is quite Orange/Green a bit or normal orange. 

Yet, yes most are blue/orange with some the elderly seeming to be quiet red sometimes. Beijing even has some green elements mostly through foreigners living there. 

yep but you have to consider that Beijing and Shanghai are old cities with alot of Western influence, but China is huge... the people in the rural areas which is like 90% arent lucky enough to afford Green values.

[Quicksilver]

I've watched the video - you spent a lot of time combating the basic ideas that most YouTube and twitter warriors spin around - which is a good thing, but far from advanced. 

I was mostly reflecting about the second part where you put forth the idea that government must be for everyone and that the purpose should be the raising of consciousness. 

Now, of course, I have no problem with that ideal but in reality the problem with what you're saying lies in game-theory. It's a prisoners dilemma.

Whoever gives up first will likely not survive and nor will his ideals in the long run. Its like in a government of lions and gazelles, we are preaching very hard to the gazelles to think of the poor lion cubs and stop running from the lions... Soon there will be no gazelles and funny enough lions will disappear soon after. 

My point is that, selfish games are part of what maintains a balance in the world.

Raising of consciousness can only come once moral boundaries between self and the other have been defined, and the survival of the self (be it individual or group) is guaranteed. 

Any polical model must care about this first if it wants to succeed. 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Rilles y this is what I thought, yet is urbanisation not prevelant? I've been to Shanghai for a couple of days, yet mostly as a tourist. I lived in Beijng though for 6 months. AlsoI visited, Xiamen and the venice of China I forgot the name and the trip was quite random.

Would love to see a Green China, they actuslly built the largest telescope not sure when to explore life on other planets. 

Pollution was abnormal in Beijing. I could nor even see the mall across the street sometimes. 

Edited July 17, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore