Who's Interested In Conscious Politics?

[Quicksilver]

Im not American so i wont meddle in this topic but please specify that youre talking about American politics here as all of these things youre talking about are nowhere near universally valid. 

[mandyjw]

@winterknight Excellent points. I believe that someone is always going to find weak people to take advantage of, and no matter how much regulation you put into place there will always be a loophole. Regulation is needed, but I would also love the uneducated to receive financial education, especially poor communities. The kind of people who don't understand how interest accumulates, the kind of people who regularly take pay day loans those are the ones who need it most. Teach kids in highschool or earlier to be conservative and intelligent with their own finances. Teach them that their freedom and their time and life is worth more than money and possessions. I don't care if you have to get rid of algebra and English class, drill it into their heads. 

The reason that politicians make these mistakes, the reason Alan Greenspan was deluded is that he doesn't understand the mindset of those who are getting preyed on. When you are born with a silver spoon in your mouth, when you are blessed with a high quality education, it's easy to think that everyone can have the same opportunities. They simply do not, they have different motives, they live in the present moment. It's the very same present moment that we are trying to go back to having spent so long engineering our futures and slaving away towards them. They never left the present moment. It's beautiful and it's also really dangerous. 

Why are the people who need Democratic policies THE MOST resistant to them? Because Democrat leader STILL don't really understand them. Instead of seeing wealth as a status symbol, they see their intellect and education as it. That's their self worth, that's where they have a lot of ego.

Education and intellect is the same as material success. It feeds, you it clothes you, you need it. But do not attach your ego to it. We know nothing. 

This is a democracy, it's as beautiful as it is inconvenient. We are only as strong as our weakest link, we are in this together. You can't shortcut and cheat your way to a better world and leave people behind in the process. 

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by mandyjw

[winterknight]

18 minutes ago, Quicksilver said:

Im not American so i wont meddle in this topic but please specify that youre talking about American politics here as all of these things youre talking about are nowhere near universally valid. 

True!

14 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@winterknight Excellent points. I believe that someone is always going to find weak people to take advantage of, and no matter how much regulation you put into place there will always be a loophole. Regulation is needed, but I would also love the uneducated to receive financial education, especially poor communities. The kind of people who don't understand how interest accumulates, the kind of people who regularly take pay day loans those are the ones who need it most. Teach kids in highschool or earlier to be conservative and intelligent with their own finances. Teach them that their freedom and their time and life is worth more than money and possessions. I don't care if you have to get rid of algebra and English class, drill it into their heads. 

The reason that politicians make these mistakes, the reason Alan Greenspan was deluded is that he doesn't understand the mindset of those who are getting preyed on. When you are born with a silver spoon in your mouth, when you are blessed with a high quality education, it's easy to think that everyone can have the same opportunities. They simply do not, they have different motives, they live in the present moment. It's the very same present moment that we are trying to go back to having spent so long engineering our futures and slaving away towards them. They never left the present moment. It's beautiful and it's also really dangerous. 

Why are the people who need Democratic policies THE MOST resistant to them? Because Democrat leader STILL don't really understand them. Instead of seeing wealth as a status symbol, they see their intellect and education as it. That's their self worth, that's where they have a lot of ego.

Education and intellect is the same as material success. It feeds, you it clothes you, you need it. But do not attach your ego to it. We know nothing. 

This is a democracy, it's as beautiful as it is inconvenient. We are only as strong as our weakest link, we are in this together. You can't shortcut and cheat your way to a better world and leave people behind in the process. 

Some great points here. You are, I'm sure, absolutely right that there is a resentment of those with higher educational status, and you also made interesting points about being able to speak to people with lower levels of education in the way they understand.

Donald Trump is documented to speak in 3rd or 4th grade language -- not out of calculation, but because he can't help it.

Steve Bullock, one of the few Democrats who has consistently won in rural areas said that there's no magic formula for winning rural voters: Dems need to show up and try. They largely haven't. So that's a critical point too.

There's a great book called Anti-Intellectualism in American Life that shows this resentment-of-education issue has been with us since the nation's founding and before. Prior to the American revolution, for instance, George Washington and Ben Franklin, farmers themselves, approached other farmers with scientific knowledge from Europe about how to improve crop yield. This wasn't some fancy abstract philosophical knowledge.

And the reaction? "Our forefathers have done it this way, and our forefathers' forefathers, and if it was good enough for them, it's good enough for us."

Edited June 12, 2019 by winterknight

[mandyjw]

13 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Donald Trump is documented to speak in 3rd or 4th grade language -- not out of calculation, but because he can't help it.

I believe that he knows exactly what he is doing. Being older and getting a bit senile might play into it some, but don't be fooled, he is a genius when it comes to making the common man think that he has their best interests at heart. What we need to someone who can make them believe it and who actually DOES have their interests at heart. 

18 minutes ago, winterknight said:

And the reaction? "Our forefathers have done it this way, and our forefathers' forefathers, and if it was good enough for them, it's good enough for us."

That's a major challenge. Sometimes you have to appear at just the right moment when they realize that what worked for generations isn't going to cut it anymore. Timing is everything. 

[winterknight]

16 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Thanks for the reference. 

Do you have any other book recommendations?

You mean on politics and American culture? Robert Caro's massive but brilliant biographies of Lyndon Johnson and Robert Moses are excellent. Democracy in America is classic -- Tocqueville, a French observer, captured much about American culture in a way that's never been matched.

[winterknight]

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

Yeah, Tocqueville is sort of an institution in my side of the world. I read partially Democracy in America in my first year of College, despite the fact that it wasn't part of the curriculum. Fascinating book.

I'm more surprised about your first recommendations. Will definitely have a look at them though. 

You can recommend even sort of advanced books.  I studied some political stuff and law at Uni level. I love to find new gems

Well, if you want an absolutely insane literary masterpiece, more like a gothic novel than a typical history, read Carlyle's History of the French Revolution.

Edited June 12, 2019 by winterknight

[Zigzag Idiot]

 

 

5 hours ago, winterknight said:

True!

Some great points here. You are, I'm sure, absolutely right that there is a resentment of those with higher educational status, and you also made interesting points about being able to speak to people with lower levels of education in the way they understand.

Donald Trump is documented to speak in 3rd or 4th grade language -- not out of calculation, but because he can't help it.

Steve Bullock, one of the few Democrats who has consistently won in rural areas said that there's no magic formula for winning rural voters: Dems need to show up and try. They largely haven't. So that's a critical point too.

There's a great book called Anti-Intellectualism in American Life that shows this resentment-of-education issue has been with us since the nation's founding and before. Prior to the American revolution, for instance, George Washington and Ben Franklin, farmers themselves, approached other farmers with scientific knowledge from Europe about how to improve crop yield. This wasn't some fancy abstract philosophical knowledge.

And the reaction? "Our forefathers have done it this way, and our forefathers' forefathers, and if it was good enough for them, it's good enough for us."

 

There's a story, purportedly true, of a school board in the heart of the Tennessee Bible Belt wrestling with whether or not to institute a foreign language curriculum in its high school. After heated discussion, the debate was finally brought to an end when one of its board members stood up and said, "No Way! If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for my son"

This is from near the beginning of Cynthia Bourgeault's THE WISDOM JESUS.

@mandyjw I think you would love this book. @Bill W also since you've each expressed a renewed interest in Christianity and the Bible. For me it articulates the divide in Fundamentalist Christianity as well as an introduction to a contemplative Christianity which many are unaware of and has authentic lineage.

Talk about effecting a large portion of US voters. It stands Fundamentalism on its head. If it only could be delivered in such a way in which these church goers who vote for Trump had "ears to hear",,,,

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Zigzag Idiot

[lukej]

@Leo Gura 

I know I'm kinda jumping in late but I would love to hear your perspective on these things. Please do shoot the video and share it on YouTube. 

I'm excited to see where your content is going to go from here. I will love and support you always. Thank you!

 

[Annoynymous]

7 hours ago, mandyjw said:

@Leo Gura If so many people weren't idiots who continually take on mortgages for home they can't afford, get themselves into credit card debt and take our massive student loans the Great Recession wouldn't have happened. There are many different defenses against evil and misfortune and teaching personal responsibility is YOUR forte. It's also the conservative highest value. I'm not saying that who shouldn't be so interested in politics, you should I just hope that you fully understand your potential here. There's something to learn from everyone, every racist country bumpkin redneck knows something about the universe that you don't know. It's all pure potential, don't overlook anyone because in doing so you only underestimate yourself. 

 

I think you totally missed or bypassed @Leo Gura's point. He was talking about war on Iraq  and how conservative like bush is responsible for that. Whereas u focused on great depression which he only used to compare and therefore it wasnt the actual point. And my personal view is, yeah i agree with you, that we should learn from conservatives as well. We have to learn their ways so that we may see how BULLSHIT it is and how it is creating evil on the world and therefore not to follow it.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Annoynymous

[Leo Gura]

My point about the 2008 recession was that the banking industry and Wall Street were not properly regulated due to anti-regulation stance of the conservative/libertarian administration.

Those industries are still not properly regulated and exploit and steal from many Americans. Wall Street is very corrupt and also corrupts all our elected leaders with their stolen and exploited money. This is not good for raising the consciousness of Americans.

Wall Street and giant banks are allowed to be breeding grounds for devils. It's utterly corrupt and exploitative. No conscious society would allow such a thing. Most people do not fully understand how corrupt these systems are. And Trump only adds fuel to the fire by appointing these devils to his administration.

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Wall Street and giant banks are allowed to be breeding grounds for devils. It's utterly corrupt and exploitative. No conscious society would allow such a thing. Most people do not fully understand how corrupt these systems are. And Trump only adds fuel to the fire by appointing these devils to his administration.

It's interesting that you cling so hard to being the righteous restorer.  Righteousness is a such a characteristically Stage Blue trait.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Shadowraix]

9 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

It's interesting that you cling so hard to being the righteous restorer.  Righteousness is a such a characteristically Stage Blue trait.

Am I missing something? I don't see this. I just see a conversation on the specifics on what a more conscious society would side for. It doesn't necessarily mean you cling to it for the sake of correctness. It would get tiring to clarify that all the time and though. 

You can't be a fence sitter when you discuss on what one thinks an improved or more conscious society would look like

[ajasatya]

11 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

It's interesting that you cling so hard to being the righteous restorer.  Righteousness is a such a characteristically Stage Blue trait.

We're all responsible for being the righteous restorers of mankind. Pathological Blue wants to be obeyed. Stage Blue traits are not bad... they're supposed to be wisely integrated.

[Joseph Maynor]

8 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

We're all responsible for being the righteous restorers of mankind. Pathological Blue wants to be obeyed. Stage Blue traits are not bad... they're supposed to be wisely integrated.

It depends on how you're clinging to it.  

[Joseph Maynor]

7 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Give Leo a break, Jo.

I'm trying to understand.  Stage Blue is not very high up the Spiral.  It's just odd to me that Leo would be so Stage Blue after all this work and all this time.  But I guess my curiosity has run its course here.  See ya.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Aakash]

@Joseph Maynor LOL, its simple, its the highest TEACHING, so he uses it on actualised.org 

[Joseph Maynor]

1 minute ago, Etherial Cat said:

Sorry to hear you feel uneasy here. I hope you'll be back because your contribution is often valuable.

But claiming that Leo is stage Blue?  What's up, mate?

Like Coral and Blue had a baby.

[Aakash]

@Joseph Maynor i see what your asking actually relative to spiral dynamics, put it like this, he's gone individual and is acting stage coral , after he broke out of the dynamics of turquoise because he's no longer functioning with the whole, instead he's actually doing what ever he wants without any regards for everyone. But you see, its tricky because after stage turquoise, individual and others collapse because you call both of them "you", so infact, he's had a complete integration of the spiral. I would consider this teir 3, because he's understood the haloistic nature of tier 2 +1 by going omniscent consciousness for even the slightest of seconds, in his trip. this is true, because any action he makes is himself. so he has no need to work holistically with everything. He could shut down actualised.org tomorrow and he would be perfectly in his paradigm. 

so its not stage blue , but its a new dynamic tier i would hypothesis , its actually a stage of biege in my opinion integrated with turquoise, because he's come to the end of holistic, the reason being is he's seen the limits of reality itself, hes gone back to being an individual, but this individual in dualistic form , in non dual form, the spiral dynamics he is in actually he's basically already had an enlightenment in stage coral and he's able to do anything he wants. 

i've never really studied stage coral, but yeah let me know what you think 

what i'm saying is he's already started acting like a bitch, but its the opposite, its radical authenticity. more authentic than even before. because he's acting from true self form

which is fucking hilarious because your all literally doing exactly what the spiral stage is enacting your demonizing, just like the supposed turquoise ahaha! this is actually banter, hence he's been stating you can't see a guru through your projects and how you wish to see them as this good guru who's full of love, because LOVE itself is radicial, so really if he saying your devil hes doing it from the most loveable love he's capable. But EGO BACKLASH IS RAGING HIGH at the moment lol 

but of course its got no relevance to non duality

again i state ahah don't shoot the messenger

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Aakash

[Aakash]

This is actually funny, because if i was right, then this is basically this is the message that leo's sending to the turqoise lot, but with love lol 

 ends = area 

in non duality terms, GOD IS ASKING GOD IF HE'S FROM THE ENDS.. Like lol, "are you really god, are you really from the ends? " 

disclaimer: these are just pure imagination thoughts lol, i could be wrong there's no validifaction behind them, i'm neither enlightened (especially don't know its relationship to enlightened people ahah)  nor stage turquoise lol 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Aakash

[Aakash]

@Joseph Maynor LOOL this is the EXACT projection, that he's talking about. Your projecting your own version of a high moralistic guru in your imagination. But its not the same as what leo is imagining in his reality. As they are seperate but same at the same time, and this is where his solopsis vs dimension question comes in. 

This is where i said your law of attraction stops working, you want people to be harmonious with you and so you basically say to the world, if i give out love will you brainwash people to give me what i want . But YOU yourself are creating the law of attraction in your reality and thats what your getting, your ideal reality with the law of attraction aahaha. So you can write about it, but it doesn't exist in other people's reality and that's the game were playing. law of attraction does not exist in the universe, its not real. ITS only real to you! LOL  

why because your omniscient consciousness and your not aware of it! THE FUCKING IRONY of word meaning shifts in duality 

This is actually hilarious. 

Note: Sorry lol, i'm ego so i'm allowed to be a bitch for now , all i do is state reality. But i'm literally myself making my own reality and i don't even know it. hilarious, such a mind fuck

OMFG I'M MAKING UP THE WHOLE OF REALITY IN MY HEAD! 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Aakash