Who's Interested In Conscious Politics?

[Norbert Lennartz]

10 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

Understanding the absolute does not mean to be complacent in the relative.

The candidate wouldn't be complacent. All people marching to the ballot boxes, all professional politicians, all addicts would be complacent. They would just dump the candidate, kill him if necessary, nail him to the cross.

 

Quote

Nondual does not eliminate the dual. Its additive, not subtractive.

Do you want to infiltrate the Mafia?
 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Norbert Lennartz said:

Oh yes, one country forbids discussing the details of the Holocaust, one country forbids discussing the details of 9/11, one country communitizes the production of bread, one country communitizes the production of shoes, in one country women are not allowed to drive a car, in one country they are not allowed to drive diesel through the city. You cannot know what is happening.
But whatever happens: What is certain is that all this is a systemic continuation of the survival strategy of the state idea of each individual.

The fundamental basis of any "good policy" or "good government" is that you are able to participate voluntarily. It is an offer that you can refuse gratefully. But that would violate the definition of a state. 

Enough of your libertarian foolishness. You clearly don't understand or appreciate how society works. You are defending an ideological position. Don't bother denying it, I spotted you from day 1.

2 hours ago, Harikrishnan said:

Yes. Sadhguru shows a little favour to right wing politics here. Indian politics is absolute opposite of American or anywhere. Right wing here have more democratic process of selecting candidate, it has a cadre back up, cadre being another organisation that doesnt involve in governance but is in for Hindu Country. On the other hand left wing is following tribal mentality like a family holds the power of a party.  Left wing when in power tried to appease minority, and that backfired and made the right wing more powerful with majority. Left wing is using appeasment politics and victim mentality. One month back major election was there and left parties tried to consolidate Minority like muslims by instilling fear in the mind and giving them a victim outlook. 

When people here in forum says goods of being a left wing or liberal an indian like me who was raised in a political family, who practised journalism gets really confused. ?

You are very confused indeed. Sounds like you are stage Blue, which is roughly the center of gravity of India.

Minority rights are very important. Consider the possibility that you are Muslim.

1 hour ago, SerpaeTetra said:

Leo - Is it possible to have a very high level of consciousness, Awoke, intelligent, and still vote for Trump in 2020? (if he is on the ballot)  

Only if you have a brain injury or a sick sense of humor.

1 hour ago, Annoynymous said:

@Leo Gura You are going to do episodes on this topic, thats fine. But why are you telling this here, opening up a thread? I dont remember you did this in recent times before an upcoming episode. Is it something going to be special?

Just curious.

To see if you guys are mature enough to handle it. Gotta test the waters because this stuff is very dangerous. It will trigger a lot of egos because people get really attached to their positions and refuse to hear meta points. (See guy above with his anarcho-libertarian position.)

[Shadowraix]

1 minute ago, Norbert Lennartz said:

The candidate wouldn't be complacent. All people marching to the ballot boxes, all professional politicians, all addicts would be complacent. They would just dump the candidate, kill him if necessary, nail him to the cross.

wat

[Odysseus]

1 hour ago, Norbert Lennartz said:

Oh yes, one country forbids discussing the details of the Holocaust, one country forbids discussing the details of 9/11, one country communitizes the production of bread, one country communitizes the production of shoes, in one country women are not allowed to drive a car, in one country they are not allowed to drive diesel through the city. You cannot know what is happening.
But whatever happens: What is certain is that all this is a systemic continuation of the survival strategy of the state idea of each individual.

The fundamental basis of any "good policy" or "good government" is that you are able to participate voluntarily. It is an offer that you can refuse gratefully. But that would violate the definition of a state. 

IMO exesses of extreme capitalist individualism are the root problems we face at the moment. People feel disconnected from each other. So society as whole must become more collectivistic (SD stage green), include rather than exclude.

But yeah, you can also preach ur utopia of anarcho-individualism where you can harvest your own crops of victimhood and fear of responsibility.

 

I'm interested in Leo's video :-)

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Perhaps post the videos on the blog.

It has less traction than your youtube channel.

These topics are too important not to have on Youtube. The politics found on YT is largely so terrible.

What is the point of talking about conscious politics if no one hears about it?

[Norbert Lennartz]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Enough of your libertarian foolishness. You clearly don't understand or appreciate how society works.

Leo, you're about to ban me from your forum. I am not a representative of any political movement. I don't do bashing about the politics of Trump or others. You are the one who forces a political debate. You have in front of you a picture of a society that is sceptical about any voluntary cooperation and hostile if necessary.

[Rilles]

3 minutes ago, Norbert Lennartz said:

Leo, you're about to ban me from your forum. I am not a representative of any political movement. I don't do bashing about the politics of Trump or others. You are the one who forces a political debate. You have in front of you a picture of a society that is sceptical about any voluntary cooperation and hostile if necessary.

Perhaps study different ways of communication. Leo is a pretty assertive communicator and so are you, hence you clash. How can you get your point across better?

[Norbert Lennartz]

19 minutes ago, Odysseus said:

IMO exesses of extreme capitalist individualism are the root problems we face at the moment. People feel disconnected from each other. So society as whole must become more collectivistic (SD stage green), include rather than exclude.

But yeah, you can also preach ur utopia of anarcho-individualism where you can harvest your own crops of victimhood and fear of responsibility.

 

I'm interested in Leo's video :-)

Thinking in is-ought problem.

[Michael569]

Great idea !! Would love to hear your thoughts on: 

• Raising the collective consciousness through impact of Politics
• What needs to happen for more green / yellow people to make it to the politics leadership
• Helping raise consciousness of countries who are at lower stages of Spiral Dynamics such as red Russia and blue Middle East
• What would a Yellow government look like and how can we get there? 

[Norbert Lennartz]

We can vote on who is a low quality poster. So Jesus was nailed to the cross.

I don't feel that I am a low quality poster, but I feel that many people don't understand my subject because they are too far away, too conditioned.

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, Norbert Lennartz said:

You have in front of you a picture of a society that is sceptical about any voluntary cooperation and hostile if necessary.

There is no voluntary choice about being in a society. You are part of society whether you like it or not. You're living in a libertarian fantasy land where you think that ants have a say about whether they are part of an ant colony. They do not have such a luxury and neither do humans.

Without society you are dead. It's as simple as that. So you have no choice unless you want to die. In which case, feel free to go off and starve in the forest alone by yourself. That is your choice. The rest of us must figure out better ways of living together.

Cooperation is mandatory on this planet. You can refuse cooperation but you may be killed for it. So expect much worse than a ban if you actually stick to your ideology. Of course you are a hypocrite and you do not stick to your ideology because it is impossible. Otherwise you'd already be dead. You are only alive thanks to society. But in your mind you think it's all you just being independent. This is delusion and arrogance of the highest order.

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Great idea !! Would love to hear your thoughts on: 

• Raising the collective consciousness through impact of Politics
• What needs to happen for more green / yellow people to make it to the politics leadership
• Helping raise consciousness of countries who are at lower stages of Spiral Dynamics such as red Russia and blue Middle East
• What would a Yellow government look like and how can we get there? 

2 minutes ago, Shiva said:

I really like this list of suggestions! Let me add to that:

• What's the value of the left/right/middle? Do we need them all? Are they all equally valid in their own ways or is one objectively better/more evolved than the other?
• How does modern democracy relate to its ancient origens? How did it evolve and what does that say about us with respect to spiral dynamics?
• Is western politics responsible for the suffering of third world countries? Is this inevitable or is there a way for all of us to live well?
• What's your perspective on elections? How to decide whom to vote for? 

Some great questions.

[Norbert Lennartz]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no voluntary choice about being in a society. You are part of society whether you like it or not. You're living in a libertarian fantasy land where you think that ants have a say about whether they are part of an ant colony. They do not have such a luxury and neither do humans.

We're not ants. Comparison is thinking, which often leads us into traps. If you don't open yourself to it, you can't see the big picture.

I will answer to the rest.

[Joel3102]

https://www.youtube.com/user/IntegralNaked/videos
 

This Youtube channel is the only tier two channel that covers politics I have come across so far

[Odysseus]

54 minutes ago, Norbert Lennartz said:

Thinking in is-ought problem.

There is a premise you're to radicalized to see: the human being needs society.

[Annoynymous]

@Leo Gura i would like to add few questions :

1. Does consciousness of the people of a country affects politics in that country?

2. Is democracy the ultimate solution for government? Can we have better alternative in the future? If so, what it might be?

3. How collective ego backlass can jeopardise a good policy taken by government and what to do about it? 

[Truth Addict]

Manipulation will never work.

[Harikrishnan]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

You are very confused indeed. Sounds like you are stage Blue, which is roughly the center of gravity of India.

Minority rights are very important. Consider the possibility that you are Muslim.

 

Yeah as i said India is different, and foreigners cant know what is it like here. Politics here is very different. Different state have different demography there are states with Muslim, christian majority. Minority rights here are very good.  I think you judged India and me same with american view on islam. Muslims here are not outsiders or refuges like in western countries. Muslims here are our part.  My problem with left parties here is that they are making muslims to act like victims, they are installing fear in minds of muslims, which i think is very bad as a country i dont want them to be isolated. They already live in groups and sects and installing fear in there mind is making them further alienated.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Harikrishnan

[Elisabeth]

@Leo Gura

We have a new liberal party in Europe and Czech Republic especially, the Pirate party. They gathered around emerging topics like freedom of speech and authorship rights in the digital age. 

In CR they have a cool leader who'd go to psychedelic festivals, and choose as their guiding motto "free, educated and digitally connected society". They claim to be in the middle/above left and right, but mostly they tend left.

I'd certainly place the highest values of the party green-yellowish, but the execution is often not there. 

I'm currently a bit of a fangirl, but very curious how this experiment goes. So far it's going great, they have 13% in CR and they are a relevant oppositional force to the populists currently in government. But will the ideas that unite the party be strong enough to keep them working honestly, and working together, for the long haul? 

I thought you might want to know, and in case you do follow, I'd be interested in any reflection.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Elisabeth

[Joseph Maynor]

42 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Manipulation will never work.

Politics is too far removed from the practicalities on one's life where one should be focused on in the first instance.  It's another bypassing from facing one's own life, another place to hide away in the mind.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Joseph Maynor