Inside Mooji's Cult

[tsuki]

@mandyjw Cynthia Bourgeault, Christian Mystic.

[mandyjw]

@whoareyou There is a type of awakening that intensifies your personality and ego. You see the world as you, but you see it as your oyster. You're completely high on power, drunk. You have charisma and people are inexplicably attracted to you. 

Then you are called to throw it all away AGAIN and see it all as emptiness again. But some people take that power and run with it, or they know nothing else. 

This is the same dynamic with rock stars and what lead to the #metoo movement. People get drunk off power. Enlightenment gives you power. If you think that you're finished with enlightenment when you awaken, you're not, you have to integrate the ego again, you finally see how much of your ego you were repressing when it's finally free to come out. 

Go home Mooji, you're drunk. I wish that people could just offer what they have to the world without ruining it. It's funny that enlightened spiritual teachers are making the same mistakes as Donald Trump.

The truth is we'd still rather elect Donald over Hillary and we'd rather continue to respect and listen to all these spiritual teachers like Mooji and Osho rather than have to listen to a woman instead, because everyone knows that power makes women ugly and submission makes them a hot piece of ass. 

[whoareyou]

2 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@whoareyou There is a type of awakening that intensifies your personality and ego. You see the world as you, but you see it as your oyster. You're completely high on power, drunk. You have charisma and people are inexplicably attracted to you. 

Then you are called to throw it all away AGAIN and see it all as emptiness again. But some people take that power and run with it, or they know nothing else. 

This is the same dynamic with rock stars and what lead to the #metoo movement. People get drunk off power. Enlightenment gives you power. If you think that you're finished with enlightenment when you awaken, you're not, you have to integrate the ego again, you finally see how much of your ego you were repressing when it's finally free to come out. 

Go home Mooji, you're drunk. I wish that people could just offer what they have to the world without ruining it. It's funny that enlightened spiritual teachers are making the same mistakes as Donald Trump.

The truth is we'd still rather elect Donald over Hillary and we'd rather continue to respect and listen to all these spiritual teachers like Mooji and Osho rather than have to listen to a woman instead, because everyone knows that power makes women ugly and submission makes them a hot piece of ass. 

Except what you call "awakening" and "enlightenment" are not TRUE awakenings and enlightenments. If you are high on power, this means that you are unconscious, and if you are unconscious - it means that you are asleep. There is a difference between getting the taste of awakening and actually having an awakening.

True enlightenment doesn't give you anything you don't already have. 

You used to be a Christian, so you probably understand when Jesus warned about false prophets and masters. The ones that you think are "enlightened" and "awakened" but they are not. Mooji is a good example of that.

 

[Moreira]

I Ignore mooji because hes not my style but most spiritual masters recieve attacks by the gobernments (via media) because they dont like some guru awakening people from capitalism and materialism.

You got the example of the documentary about Osho shittalking and messing his image.

[mandyjw]

@whoareyou I like to think of it as just like there are different levels of intelligence in people, there are different levels of awakening or enlightenment, let's call it "spiritual intelligence." 

You can use intelligence to make an atom bomb or to cure cancer. The same "choice" exists within spiritual intelligence. Some do great things, some awful and some stay paralyzed in fear of their own power. 

 

[abrakamowse]

I think is as Leo said, those guys get enlightenment but they don't develop the whole picture. So, they can use enlightenment to make devilish things.

IMO.

[whoareyou]

@mandyjw This terminology would make more sense. Yes you can use your mind to make a bomb or cure cancer - the difference is the level of consciousness.

If someone is at a very high level of consciousness, people refer to them as "awake" or "enlightened". Which is why words like "enlightenment" should not be used very loosely, as many people on this forum do.

@abrakamowse

If you can use "enlightenment" to make devilish things, then it's not an "enlightenment" because to make devilish things requires you to be unconscious. You are using the word "enlightenment" too loosely, just like LEO.

[kieranperez]

@Leo Gura funny story for you.

So I’m working at this job this summer that happens to be based of A LOT of Mormons. Besides the fact that they repress every swear word with “fudge” and “shizz” (granted - a lot of these guys are in their late 20s), I learned about this thing they do called “durfing” (for dick surfing). It’s a loophole they find for avoiding sex where they just dry hump for hours until they nut. The loopholes the mind comes up with to meet its needs are astounding.

My favorite is the genius that created Christian Mingle. That is pure GOLD. 

In all seriousness though: do you think one can truly transmute their sexuality?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

@Leo Gura We already figured this problem out as a society, monogamy. It doesn't always work but it works better than anything else we've found yet.

Monogamy doesn't really work. It fails more than it succeeds. This is by design. It's supposed to "fail".

1 hour ago, whoareyou said:

According to some reports, one of them which I linked to you already, a person described a situation where Mooji forced a woman to be his prostitute.

It is more than just using fame/status to get easy sex, it is abusing the position of an "enlightened master", and twisting spiritual truth to get what he wants. For example, telling a student that their awakening would come quicker if they have sex with him is a SERIOUS abuse.

IF true, then I agree all of that is problematic.

Quote

If that is the case, then your definition of "enlightenment" is a very loose one. To teach what he is teaching is not rocket science - you LEO can easily teach the stuff that he is teaching.

Enlightenment does not mean what you think it means. It prescribes no specific ways of behavior. Enlightenment is realization of one's true nature. What one does afterwards is a whole nother matter. Survival needs are still operative.

Quote

Imo, you really need to re-evaluate your definition of "enlightenment" and who you view as "enlightened".

I sense that you are taking a judgmental attitude on this whole topic. This clouds your understanding of enlightenment.

If a guy is conscious of his true nature but sexually abuses his students, I have no problem calling him enlightened because enlightenment is a very specific thing which does not hinge on moral actions. You must be careful not to equate enlightenment with some idealized notion of being Christ-like.

Also keep in mind there are many degrees of enlightenment, many degrees of embodiment of it, and many stages & lines of development which are all independent of enlightenment. This is a very complex topic which is understood by very few spiritual teachers.

[now is forever]

it’s so funny this discussion. it’s so funny because i know the answer... it’s so, so funny.

you guys sometimes forget what’s the difference between awakening and enlightenment. as if we had never talked about it before. the moment sex is in the game everyone has their opinion about it. 

there are multiple degrees between reality and showbizz.

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

@Leo Gura funny story for you.

So I’m working at this job this summer that happens to be based of A LOT of Mormons. Besides the fact that they repress every swear word with “fudge” and “shizz” (granted - a lot of these guys are in their late 20s), I learned about this thing they do called “durfing” (for dick surfing). It’s a loophole they find for avoiding sex where they just dry hump for hours until they nut. The loopholes the mind comes up with to meet its needs are astounding.

Yes, that's very common and totally expected.

Stage Blue represses sexuality a lot. Including of course their own homosexual impulses, which are denied so deeply they turn into violent homophobia.

Quote

In all seriousness though: do you think one can truly transmute their sexuality?

Yes, of course, but only at very advanced levels of this work. It's not for noobs.

[Joseph Maynor]

We need to take sex out of our Shadows already.  This is one of the cons of white-knuckle clinging to the asceticism end of the Paradox Of Asceticism And Hedonism which creates a lock and causes suffering for yourself and for others.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[mandyjw]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Monogamy doesn't really work. It fails more than it succeeds. This is by design. It's supposed to "fail".

That's a limiting belief. If you want something to work you make it work. If you want to lose weight you don't overeat junk  food. If you want to stay true to your partner, you don't sleep with other people. Easy. Do you still want to eat a whole bag of potato chips sometimes? Yep. That's doesn't mean you have to actually do it. In fact it's way easier to control those instincts with sex than with food. 

9 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

We need to take sex out of our Shadows already.

For real. 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by mandyjw

[whoareyou]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Enlightenment does not mean what you think it means. It prescribes no specific ways of behavior. Enlightenment is realization of one's true nature. What one does afterwards is a whole nother matter. Survival needs are still operative.

I didn't say that it prescribes a specific way of behavior. I am saying, that with enlightenment, your behavior automatically adjusts. 

What you refer to then is Zen devilry, a half ass enlightenment? 

Quote

I sense that you are taking a judgmental attitude on this whole topic. This clouds your understanding of enlightenment.

If a guy is conscious of his true nature but sexually abuses his students, I have no problem calling him enlightened because enlightenment is a very specific thing which does not hinge on moral actions. You must be careful not to equate enlightenment with some idealized notion of being Christ-like.

Why are you so sure that your understanding of "enlightenment" is more accurate than mine? 

I am not saying that one has to be Christ-like, but the things that Mooji have allegedly done, are FAR from what a "conscious" person looks like.

I equate enlightenment with highest levels of consciousness, and at highest level of consciousness I don't see those actions ever happening.

Quote

Also keep in mind there are many degrees of enlightenment, many degrees of embodiment of it, and many stages & lines of development which are all independent of enlightenment. This is a very complex topic which is understood by very few spiritual teachers.

Unless you have gone through all the stages yourself, there is NO WAY that you can know this to be true. 

All you really have is an idea, which you perceive to be a certain way, which you think you have a very good understanding of, when you actually don't. (We are all in the same boat)

If you don't know, then why talk about it like it's a fact?

Edited June 6, 2019 by whoareyou

[mandyjw]

You might think that monogamy only benefits women, but when only the most confident powerful/most attractive/wealthiest,etc men get the women, you end up with a very frustrated pool of men who can't get laid. 

Hmm.. sounds like a familiar problem. 

In fact everyone gets stuck in a low conscious game of chimps both men and women. 

1 minute ago, whoareyou said:

Unless you have gone through all the stages yourself, there is NO WAY that you can know this to be true. 

All you really have is an idea, which you perceive to be a certain way, which you think you have a very high understanding of, when you actually don't. (

We are all on the same boat)

If you don't know, then why talk about it, like it's a fact?

He has gone through enough stages to know firsthand. 

[whoareyou]

5 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

He has gone through enough stages to know firsthand. 

According to him, he is not enlightened. He has not gone through the stages of enlightenment that he is talking about here. You are once again throwing that word around very loosely.

[whoareyou]

And like I mentioned, most people who were abused, actually wish to stay anonymous. (people in this thread were asking for sources LOL)

Due to fear, a lot of people do not bother reporting people like Mooji.

Here is an example from the cult forum, where you can clearly see this:

Quote

"corboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear xivoparig
>
> You are very fortunate that you heard what you say
> you heard.
>
> If at any point you receive abusive or dodgy
> private messages, please send copies to Rick Ross,
> moderator of this message board.
>
> Mr. Ross can be contacted here:
>
> [forum.culteducation.com]
>
> Some may come across pretending to work on an
> expose of Mooji trying to get you
> to give your name and address.
>
> If anyone claims to be a journalist or police
> investigator, take precautions to ensure
> that the person is legitimate.
>
> Find out whether that person is a seasoned
> journalist linked up and supported by a media
> outlet with a good legal department. A freelance
> journalist may not have the resources to protect
> your anonymity.
>
> Your friend Sarah is in a difficult situation.
>
> It is awful to recognize one has been used.
>
> Am sorry to say that for many, the one way to
> break the spell is discovering that others are
> being treated exactly the same way. That they too
> have been told that they are special, unique, that
> they are the only ones worthy of special
> attention.
>
> That is how most abusers are exposed - when their
> victims assemble and compare stories.
>
> In selecting confidantes, be careful of anyone who
> might be a guru sympathizer.
>
> If a potential confidante happens to be someone
> who does yoga or meditation or has buddhist
> affiliations, satisfy yourself that he or she does
> not also belong to a guru.
>
> (In tibetan buddhism, gurus are also called tulkus
> lamas and rinpoches)
>
> One may be a guru disciple and experience oneself
> f as capable of journalistic objectivity in
> relation to guru abuses, but IMO, emotional
> dependence on a guru is a form of intoxication
> that can subvert the best education and sharpest
> intellect and professional ethics.
>
> Guru disciples who interact with the outside world
> often become skilled at concealing the extent of
> their guru addiction behind facades of skepticism
> and intellectual tolerance, rather like heroin
> addicts who take care to hide the scars on their
> arms and drunkards who conceal the stench by using
> mouth wash.
>
> Even if it is not their own guru who is exposed,
> those who are addicted to gurus or who hope a real
> guru does exist somewhere will automatically feel
> threatened toward anyone attempting to report guru
> abuses.

Thank you corboy. That is good good advice for everyone.
I am trusting no-one. Not even you. I do not want to be interviewed and I recognize the danger in speaking about what happened. The whole Mooji cult works on followers deflecting and entrapment. The constant repetitiveness of tasks, chants that make the cult a part of your daily life. I saw this starting to happen to me. I saw lots of potential people in this position, giving their money and bodies away to this cult. This is the first place that came up on search so I posted. I want Mooji exposed and I am hoping this gets publicized and the press jumps on him. I know that if Sarah or others search the internet this post will come up and they can read and reflect on themselves how to get out before they are in too deep. My message to Mooji and any other cult that IS your life is don't be blinded and lead on with 'belief'.

[/QUOTE}

Edited June 6, 2019 by whoareyou

[Garuda]

OP this has been posted before 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Garuda

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, whoareyou said:

I didn't say that it prescribes a specific way of behavior. I am saying, that with enlightenment, your behavior automatically adjusts. 

That's a dangerous assumption.

Quote

Why are you so sure that your understanding of "enlightenment" is more accurate than mine?

Because I have awoken many times.

Quote

I equate enlightenment with highest levels of consciousness, and at highest level of consciousness I don't see those actions ever happening.

That's a very dangerous idea which is precisely what I'm trying to help you to question.

I'd like you to start imagining that even at high levels of consciousness those actions can happen. Because factually they DO! As you can clearly see throughout history.

To define enlightenment as the absence of immoral action is very problematic. That's not what enlightenment is.

Quote

Unless you have gone through all the stages yourself, there is NO WAY that you can know this to be true. 

All you really have is an idea, which you perceive to be a certain way, which you think you have a very good understanding of, when you actually don't. (We are all in the same boat)

If you don't know, then why talk about it like it's a fact?

I can't tell you how I know the things I know because what we're talking about here is too deep to explain in a simple linear sequence of words. Entire books would have to be written about it, and still most people reading them would not be able to understand it because they lack the requisite experience.

As someone who studies this stuff professionally, I'm here to give you guidance about things you probably have never deeply studied or have direct experience of. That's the whole point of a good teacher, to show you things you aren't yet aware of. This does not make the teacher infallible, and yet he must still teach. So here we are. Make of it what you will.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

That's a limiting belief.

Not so much a belief as a realistic observation of human sexual behavior.

I did not say you are doomed to failure. I just wouldn't bet my money on you succeeding