Inside Mooji's Cult

[now is forever]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Watch your projections.

I engage people in discussion more than any other Youtuber alive. I have answered tens of thousands of peoples critiques, questions, and comments. It is almost a full-time job because the ignorance and devilry from some of you guys has no end.

yes please will you remove all of my content? i want to leave the forum because i can’t stand your ignorance anymore. it really has no end.

watch yourself leo, no one else can obviously.

all of the talking about sending probes. this is one of them.

Edited June 6, 2019 by now is forever

[Preetom]

Ahh..what started out as something good turned into this serious project of justifying and saving one's ass by shooting down others ?

[tedens]

@now is forever matures bro.

[now is forever]

3 minutes ago, tedens said:

@now is forever matures bro.

thank you ? 

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, whoareyou said:

You did not read the article in it's entirety. It was an in depth research done by an outstanding investigative journalist.

That is true. I merely skimmed it.

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The fact that you are defending Mooji is very troubling. You can't be this naive right? What he is doing is much more than "unhealthy".

Go back and read my comment again. I did not simply defend Mooji, I made a meta point about this whole topic.

Whatever wrongs Mooji may have made the journalist does not understand the much deeper dynamics which underlie spiritual movements. This is a very nuanced and complex matter. Legit spiritual teachers are very easy to demonize.

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Here are very important things that you missed:

- Abusing his position to have sex with his students (and cheating on his partners while having sex with them)

I did not miss that.

But you have to be mindful of your own projections here. Having sex freely does not necessarily mean anything bad. Monogamous sex is your own standard and expectation.

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-Using abusive tactics such as shaming, humiliating, controlling behavior, pairing and breaking up couples, brainwashing/ mind control, coercing people from leaving,etc

Most of this relative and subjective.

Forcing people from leaving is a serious problem if true.

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- If he was congruent with who he portrays himself to be on public videos, his followers would not refer to him as “my Lord,” “my Master” and “my Father.” Regularly kiss his “holy” feet and bowing to him would not be an accepted form of behavior in his ashram.  The fact that he doesn't discourage this behavior is a very red flag alone. Given the context, this plays a huge significance which you fail to see.

I said so myself. I do not like that approach to spirituality, but you must also understand that worship is a legit spiritual path for many people (bhakti yoga). It is not a path I would encourage but people have done it for thousands of years, and it can produce results. It's not merely ass-kissing.

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- Smuggling over €200,000 of unreported cash, and having his followers smuggle money for him - another red flag

Again, a relative matter. What exactly does "smuggling" mean here?

Running a community requires lots of money.

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-Sells “Sahaja Dust” labeled as “earth Mooji may have walked on.” It’s dirt from their retreat center. Mala beads blessed by Mooji sell for up to 25 Euros. Pictures of Mooji’s feet sell for 1.5 Euros. And he sells blankets that he has personally used.

Somewhat problematic but not too bad.

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- People walk around on eggshells fearing him and wanting to outdo others to show how devoted they are.

This would be common to virtually all spiritual communities/monasteries/gurus.

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There is a lot more, this is just the appetizer. 

Again, you have to factor out your own projections, judgments, and the journalist's ignorance and bias about how spiritual communities work.

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None of this is a defense of Mooji. It seems his community has some cult-like features. But you need to look at it without judging it if you really want to underatand it. This is a meta point. I have no loyalty to Mooji.

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, now is forever said:

yes please will you remove all of my content? i want to leave the forum because i can’t stand your ignorance anymore. it really has no end.

watch yourself leo, no one else can obviously.

all of the talking about sending probes. this is one of them.

Again, observe your reactivity and projections. You are behaving like a devil and you are fooling no one here with such ego games.

[now is forever]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Again, observe your reactivity and projections. You are behaving like a devil.

?

[Preetom]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Again, observe your reactivity and projections. You are behaving like a devil and you are fooling no one here with such ego games.

The devil in pon pon earrings ?

[now is forever]

6 minutes ago, Preetom said:

The devil in pon pon earrings ?

good idea - something was missing on the outfit... i wonder how he‘d look with them.

Edited June 6, 2019 by now is forever

[Big Guru Balls]

I usually discourage such displays of affection ,but if  one wishes to show respect by bowing to my Big Lotus Balls, I will gracefully allow it. 

[Rilles]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is true. I merely skimmed it.

Go back and read my comment again. I did not simply defend Mooji, I made a meta point about this whole topic.

Whatever wrongs Mooji may have made the journalist does not understand the much deeper dynamics which underlie spiritual movements. This is a very nuanced and complex matter. Legit spiritual teachers are very easy to demonize.

I did not miss that.

But you have to be mindful of your own projections here. Having sex freely does not necessarily mean anything bad. Monogamous sex is your own standard and expectation.

Most of this relative and subjective.

Forcing people from leaving is a serious problem if true.

I said so myself. I do not like that approach to spirituality, but you must also understand that worship is a legit spiritual path for many people (bhakti yoga). It is not a path I would encourage but people have done it for thousands of years, and it can produce results. It's not merely ass-kissing.

Again, a relative matter. What exactly does "smuggling" mean here?

Running a community requires lots of money.

Somewhat problematic but not too bad.

This would be common to virtually all spiritual communities/monasteries/gurus.

Again, you have to factor out your own projections, judgments, and the journalist's ignorance and bias about how spiritual communities work.

-------

None of this is a defense of Mooji. It seems his community has some cult-like features. But you need to look at it without judging it if you really want to underatand it. This is a meta point. I have no loyalty to Mooji.

Youre defending Moojis actions here, theres no way around it, sometimes a no is okay too, maybe Moojis wasnt the angel you thought he was, there are plenty of other sages to look up to.

[Leo Gura]

@Rilles No, I am making meta points about how easily your mind distorts what you see.

I have no loyalty to Mooji and I have no idea what he is like in person. Neither do you unless you met him.

[Preetom]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Rilles No, I am making meta points about how easily your mind distorts what you see.

I have no loyalty to Mooji and I have no idea what he is like in person. Neither do you unless you met him.

Even if someone MET him, there is no way to know shit about him. Not really.

Most married couples remain alien and strangers to each other in spite of living together for 40 years; whereas ideally they are supposed to become one soul and all that good stuff

Edit: A very easy question. How much do your parents 'understand' and know you? You've lived like 20 years with them and yet they probably dont know even 2% about you.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Preetom

[mandyjw]

Reading Ramaji's book "1000" has made me really rethink how I judge spiritual teachers. Up to a point spiritual attainment is like intelligence, it can be used for good or bad purposes. This has shattered my ideals and world so bad I want to curl up in a ball and cry for my Mommy. Less than judging other spiritual teachers I'm terrified of myself and Mommy can't help me now. 

Too many things to reconcile, but there IS no good and bad, so the mind has nothing left to do but give up and turn off. 

[whoareyou]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is true. I merely skimmed it.

 

Whatever wrongs Mooji may have made the journalist does not understand the much deeper dynamics which underlie spiritual movements. This is a very nuanced and complex matter. Legit spiritual teachers are very easy to demonize.

Because you skimmed an article, you do not understand the complexity and nuances described in this article.  Your own mind is distorting you into labeling Mooji as "legit spiritual teacher".

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But you have to be mindful of your own projections here. Having sex freely does not necessarily mean anything bad. Monogamous sex is your own standard and expectation.

This is not what I said. He is abusing his position to have sex with his students, while being in a monogamous relationships.

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Most of this relative and subjective.

If you haven't skimmed the article, actually read it and CONTEMPLATED, you would see it is not relative and subjective. Your own devilry is coming to play here.

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

I said so myself. I do not like that approach to spirituality, but you must also understand that worship is a legit spiritual path for many people (bhakti yoga). It is not a path I would encourage but people have done it for thousands of years, and it can produce results. It's not merely ass-kissing.

How do you determine that something is "legit"? Your perception of what is "legit" and what is not could very easily be distorted here. 

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Again, a relative matter. What exactly does "smuggling" mean here?

It's a relative matter to you, because you skimmed the article. If you bothered to read, and take it in the context, you would see the bigger picture. Having his students engage in criminal activity for him, and then take the falls for it, all just to earn his devotion is a VERY red flag.

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Somewhat problematic but not too bad.

Somewhat? It is VERY problematic. The fact that you don't see the significance of what is going on here, given the context, is hilarious to me.

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This would be common to virtually all spiritual communities/monasteries/gurus.

All spiritual communities have this kind of abuse? Wtf are you talking about? 

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Again, you have to factor out your own projections, judgments, and the journalist's ignorance and bias about how spiritual communities work.

-------

None of this is a defense of Mooji. It seems his community has some cult-like features. But you need to look at it without judging it if you really want to underatand it. This is a meta point. I have no loyalty to Mooji.

Do you factor in your own projections, judgments, and beliefs that you hold about Mooji? 

If you want to understand what is going on here, you need to read the entire article. There is a lot more than "cult-like" features, there are a lot of red flags that you fail to see. 

 

[Arhattobe]

Leo is merely being understanding and saying things aren’t black and white. Tight knit communities that are involved in spiritual work will undoubtably have unhealthy dynamics. Cult dynamics.

Regular communities are unhealthy. Add the gruelling and destabilising nature of the spiritual path and you might fall and hurt yourself.

Hurting yourself is a small matter though. Will you learn, understand and grow at that point in time or will you be a simpleton?

Demonising others will not allow you to understand them, and you can not accept that which you fail to understand. That which you paint with a broad brush.

Not defending mooji. Not a fan of him. Though I was listening to him when I awakened. Point being you can learn from all of life or you can demonise it, put other down and prolong your life of stress and ignorance.

[whoareyou]

@Arhattobe Except this is not just unhealthy dynamics.

There is enough evidence out there to say that it's an abusive cult that is run by a corrupt (mentally sick) individual, disguising himself under a "spiritual teacher".

Why is this important? Because there are other individuals out there who are doing the same.  There are too many so called "experts" out there who don't embody what they preach in their everyday life.

How much more evidence would you need, to see that individual for who he is? (and not some "legit non-dual" guru). 

It's hard for people to accept these things, because they used to watch videos of that person on youtube videos, and have painted a picture of some "legit guru". When the evidence comes pouring in, they would rather not break that illusion, as the dominos would fall, and that would mean other "gurus" that they watched, could also be fake.

Edited June 6, 2019 by whoareyou

[Shin]

I don't think he's fake.

You can genuinely deeply feel and know some things, but not embodying them fully as of now.

That doesn't mean you can't communicate those things, even if you don't personally embody them yourself, the advice/teaching can still be effective and genuine.

The reason you want to embody what you teach, is in order to lead by exemple, that's the second reason actually, the first is for you to feel good and more truthful with yourself.

Mooji should be in a jail though, if it would be any random dude there wouldn't be any argument, he would suck other dude dicks by now ?

Edited June 6, 2019 by Shin

[now is forever]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you understood what a cult really was you would realize Actuized.org is nowhere close to a cult and will never become one so long as I'm alive. What you guys do after I'm dead is another matter.

well yeah but it is. it doesn’t matter how you call it. and not talking about the problem, not letting people who want to leave leave. is cult like behavior - giving people who are not fit for a position a position is not only cult like behavior it is   arbitrariness and nepotism.

sorry leo, projection sometimes really is a mirror game.

[Shin]

3 minutes ago, now is forever said:

well yeah but it is. it doesn’t matter how you call it. and not talking about the problem, not letting people who want to leave leave. is cult like behavior - giving people who are not fit for a position a position is not only cult like behavior it is   arbitrariness and nepotism.

sorry leo, projection sometimes really is a mirror game.

What the hell are you talking about ?

Why can't you leave ?

Who's in a position that he shouldn't be in ? What position are you talking about anyway ?

That looks like you're being a huge drama queen and are actually jealous of those supposeadly not worthy people.

That's all I see here sorry.