is trading literally equaling to scamming

[non_nothing]

Are there any value in selling items n general? Consider the following scenarios

 

1:

I have a shop and i buy some items then sell them. I double the buy price l. I do not really care about whether the item has any value or to the customer at all. I only care about the money i will earn at the end of the day.

 

2:

Consider someone that sells an used item. S,he no longer needs this item. Since it is used, and usually used item seller knows every malfunctioning or flaw of the item s,he sells. That might be a car, house or whatever. It is useful to consider an example that is not in a highly traded item, for ex it might be a used piano. Because cars and houses has large market, there are a lot experts on just for those topics. Consider that i am selling my used piano. I know its every broken parts and etc. still what i only interested in is selling it as quick as possible. I do not really interested about whether the buyer will really benefit from this or not. But can I really avoid this by saying it is the buyers responsibility?

 

Arent somehow we are deceiving ourselves here a bit on those common scenarios happening in life? What value does there really add value to those items in scenario 1 with holding that item in the storage until someone buys it?

 

Another point of view is to look under the perspective of supply/demand. So what in fact adds or makes potential buyers to buy those items is the unavailability of those items in market with lower prices as sold by whole sellers. The risk of storing those items is what i can hardly make sense  of what adds value to this selling an item to double price scenario. The seller or scammer as i noted in first scenario, takes the risk of unable to sell those items that he buy, kind of he becomes  another layer of cog in the machine. So the potential speed of whole-seller makes whole-seller to sell large quantities of items in lower price but that speed comes with a downside of unable to reach/deal each potential customer one by one, individually. This has to be realized by another mechanism as I called yet another cog layer. But as in the beginning i find this nothing more different than a layer of scamming scheme going on.

Whats your thoughts on this?

Edited June 5, 2019 by non_nothing

[Knock]

Curious, what is your definition of a scam?

21 minutes ago, non_nothing said:

I do not really care about whether the item has any value or to the customer at all.

If I care a lot about if an item has value to you as a customer, will you give me a hug or pay more for it?

[Aeris]

Do what you want. The 'karma' is very real. Not all buyers will appreciate.

You'll not win long term if one decide to physically broke you because you scam him.

Do not do others what you wish not get.

It doesn't mean you cannot act red. But consciously Fuck people. It's sure that once the seed will be very angry and if your life is worth 500$ humm

If someone scam me joyfully and I know where he lives. I would burn his house without him knowing I would even do it for him to not link me. I would find him on fb aswell. And when I m vengeful It's only if justice has to be incarnated by me. Which is rare but when I act 'red' you wished not be my ennemy

Don't think everyone people you sell things are weaks monkeys.

The more dangerous could look the weakest.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Aeris

[tsuki]

2 hours ago, non_nothing said:

Whats your thoughts on this?

You seem to be assuming that items have underlying value that is apart from the agreement of people involved in buying/selling.
The average market price is just that - an average. If a person is willing to buy from you for a high price, they have a reason to do so.
They either have a surplus of money and they don't care about it, or they don't know how to manage it properly. 
Unless you make it so, it is not your responsibility to educate people in caring for their well-being.

2 hours ago, non_nothing said:

What value does there really add value to those items in scenario 1 with holding that item in the storage until someone buys it?

The money you charge is for the know-how about how to build the supply chain that enables you to obtain and store the items for the customer's convenience. They are trading their money for not having to learn the broader market.

Edited June 5, 2019 by tsuki

[Aeris]

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

You seem to be assuming that items have underlying value that is apart from the agreement of people involved in buying/selling.
The average market price is just that - an average. If a person is willing to buy from you for a high price, they have a reason to do so.
They either have a surplus of money and they don't care about it, or they don't know how to manage it properly. 
Unless you make it so, it is not your responsibility to educate people in caring for their well-being.

The money you charge is for the know-how about how to build the supply chain that enables you to obtain and store the items for the customer's convenience. They are trading their money for not having to learn the broader market.

good views, but in the case of a mental affair, like I sell you with a smile a defectible object, is different than non manage your monney correctly.

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Aeris

[tsuki]

4 minutes ago, Aeris said:

good views, but in the case of a mental affair, like I sell you with a smile a defectible object, is different than non manage your monney correctly.

Yes, it's different.
If you're successful in scamming me, then the difference between value and price is paid for the lesson in fraud detection. If you don't know how to spot fraud and you care about quality, then you do your research. Alternatively, you pay someone that knows how to do that.

Fraud is never sustainable, so it's best to avoid it nonetheless.

[jbram2002]

A scam is intentionally misleading someone for your own personal gain. When you go into a store, the prices are listed at a value that people are willing to pay. Some of these prices are even regulated in some areas, like the cost of a gallon (4 liters) of milk in my state. 

If I want to sell you a used piano, and you are buying a used piano, it is incumbent upon you, the buyer, to vet the item and ensure it is free from any defects you don't wish to pay for. That might mean stopping by and playing the piano to get its feel, tonal quality, whether any keys are missing or broken, etc. Similarly with used cars; that's why we test drive. People rarely buy a used item without thoroughly inspecting them first. In fact, it's recommended to do the same with new items, which is why we test drive new cars, inspect new houses, and check our fruit for bruises in the supermarket.

Trading is a different question altogether. If I want to trade a specific good of mine for that of yours, we both need to agree on an equitable exchange. For example, I have carrots in my farm and you need them, so you're willing to trade your potatoes that I need. We could go to the local market and see that carrots sell for $0.90/lb and potatoes cost $0.40/lb, then have an approximate ratio of value for them. Or I can say that one of your potatoes is worth two of my carrots, and trade that way. Let's say you're in desperate need of carrots and have no use for potatoes for some reason. In that case, I might increase the value of my carrots since demand has increased, and I might charge you 1 potato per carrot. Alternately, you might have a potato famine and it was far more difficult for you to harvest potatoes this year, decreasing supply. In that cast, you might charge me 4 carrots per potato. This is all basic supply vs demand, not scamming.

When you're looking at the value of an item, realize that most places that resell an item mark it up by about 100%. This is to cover the cost of transportation (if applicable), overhead like electricity, wages for employees, etc. If I read that the wholesale price of potatoes is 20 cents per pound, I can't simply go to the supermarket and demand my 20 cent potatoes. They have to make ends meet and make a profit as well. They are providing not only the goods I purchase but also the convenience of not having to grow or forage for them myself.

Here's where the line gets blurred: A department store is selling their clothing at $60 per item, but they know they can make enough profit by selling for $20 per item. So they generally have their item at $60, but often put it on sale at 50% off. A customer walks in and sees the sale price and thinks that they're getting it for a steal. In reality, they are paying $30 when the store would make plenty of profit at $20. The store is scamming its customers into thinking they are getting better value than they are. It's incumbent on the customer to decide if it's a good idea to continue to shop there, or if the store's competition is good enough.

You also have the assumption that the seller does not care about the buyer. In a store, you need your customers to return. Thus, you definitely care about your customers' opinions on the items they buy, or they'll buy from somewhere else. That's why you have customer service desks at any major store, and why stores advertise their low prices or promise to beat competitor prices. Yes, the business only cares about their bottom line, but in order to get a good bottom line, you have to service your clients' needs. If you're a one-time seller, then this value might be less in your mind. You don't need them to return. However, there are laws about fraudulent sales, and you could get fined or potentially worse if you intentionally defraud a customer. This is usually enough reason to make cons and scams less frequent, but obviously, some still happen.

The last thing I'll say is that you should never look at a trade as a zero-sum game. A zero-sum game means that anything that is positive for you is negative for me. So if you're happy, then I lose. This is the wrong way to look at a trade. In a good trade, both sides sacrifice things they don't need as much in order to gain things that they desire. Both sides should come up positive in a good trade. I'm not going to trade you my carrots if I need them to survive and I have no use for potatoes. I'm not going to a department store and buying every random toy my kid wants because I value my money higher than those toys. In a good trade, even if one side feels like they made out like a bandit, it's still not a scam if the other side is happy too.

[non_nothing]

@Aeris

Karma was not the main subject tbh. It is a bad karma indeed. No doubt.

@tsuki

Or they dont know the market when it comes to buying above avg.

17 hours ago, jbram2002 said:

Here's where the line gets blurred: A department store is selling their clothing at $60 per item, but they know they can make enough profit by selling for $20 per item. So they generally have their item at $60, but often put it on sale at 50% off. A customer walks in and sees the sale price and thinks that they're getting it for a steal. In reality, they are paying $30 when the store would make plenty of profit at $20. The store is scamming its customers into thinking they are getting better value than they are. It's incumbent on the customer to decide if it's a good idea to continue to shop there, or if the store's competition is good enough

This! Is the thing i wanted to point out in the beginning. What do you really think about this guys?

 

17 hours ago, jbram2002 said:

If you're a one-time seller, then this value might be less in your mind

I was also going to say that in touristic places that happens like 100% out of 100 times. If you are a tourist and want to buy something in the place you visit they charge you like 500% of the local place especially if you are visiting in middle east or east parts of europe.

 

17 hours ago, jbram2002 said:

The last thing I'll say is that you should never look at a trade as a zero-sum game.

Thanks for this point. I will keep this in my mind for the next couple of thought encounters in the life.

 

@Shiva dishonesty, right word.

[7thLetter]

The value you provide is the item/service you are selling.

If there were no pianos on the market, then you would have to make your own. If no one is selling a house, then go make your own. If grocery stores don’t sell meat or whatever you’re looking for, then go hunt your own food. If no one is selling a car, then make your own. If it took someone $3 to make a T-Shirt and they’re selling it for $15, who cares you don’t have to buy it, go make your own. If someone is selling their financial planning services, you don’t have to buy it, figure your finances yourself.

A scam is usually defined as an illegal way of acquiring money. Or an unlawful or unfair of making money. Trading is not illegal.

What are you even trying to get at here? You want people to price their products at what they got it for? What’s the point of selling then anyway? If only one person in the entire world had access to a huge supply of blankets, and you can’t get them anywhere else, what’s the point of him trying to sell it if he can’t get anything out of it? Is he going to waste his time distributing free blankets to millions of people? If not, you’re probably saying “then he’s selfish.” Who cares you don’t have to buy it from him, go find your own way around it and make your own blanket.

[non_nothing]

5 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

The value you provide is the item/service you are selling.

If there were no pianos on the market, then you would have to make your own. If no one is selling a house, then go make your own. If grocery stores don’t sell meat or whatever you’re looking for, then go hunt your own food. If no one is selling a car, then make your own. If it took someone $3 to make a T-Shirt and they’re selling it for $15, who cares you don’t have to buy it, go make your own. If someone is selling their financial planning services, you don’t have to buy it, figure your finances yourself.

A scam is usually defined as an illegal way of acquiring money. Or an unlawful or unfair of making money. Trading is not illegal.

What are you even trying to get at here? You want people to price their products at what they got it for? What’s the point of selling then anyway? If only one person in the entire world had access to a huge supply of blankets, and you can’t get them anywhere else, what’s the point of him trying to sell it if he can’t get anything out of it? Is he going to waste his time distributing free blankets to millions of people? If not, you’re probably saying “then he’s selfish.” Who cares you don’t have to buy it from him, go find your own way around it and make your own blanket.

 

You misunderstood the whole story going here.

[7thLetter]

@non_nothing story is you’re asking a question and answer is no its not scamming. In a lot of cases dishonesty yes, in order to drive sales. Question answered, end of thread.

[Michael569]

What does your intuition tell you? Does it fell right doing what you do when you look deep inside? 

[non_nothing]

40 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

What does your intuition tell you? Does it fell right doing what you do when you look deep inside? 

This is a good way to investigate this situation. I think that is why I have opened this thread.

Now, lets we all agree that seller has to increase the price in order to cover up its business needs. Now where does it end? Where to draw the line?

Double? Triple? or rather add up 10 dollars to whatever the label is? How would we say that it is worth what he's doing and the triple amount is the worth he deserves.

Lets define standards of a living.

Now is there any absolute way to define this?

My standards would be a simple house with a car and yours might be a villa with pools and a Lamborghini. Now lets say I get where I want with 10 cents and you get there by adding up 100 dollars and tripling the amount of your sells to maintain your "standard way of living"

[Michael569]

16 minutes ago, non_nothing said:

My standards would be a simple house with a car and yours might be a villa with pools and a Lamborghini. Now lets say I get where I want with 10 cents and you get there by adding up 100 dollars and tripling the amount of your sells to maintain your "standard way of living"

That's why there is no right answer to the question you posed. 

There are also deeper questions you can ask such as: "how is what I do helping people and serving humanity? "  Does this way of living allign with my  values? -> I am getting a hint that there is some clashing which is why you raised this thread because you feel it...but that's just me projecting on person I don't know cause that's prob what I'd do. 

[non_nothing]

7 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

That's why there is no right answer to the question you posed. 

There are also deeper questions you can ask such as: "how is what I do helping people and serving humanity? "  Does this way of living allign with my  values? -> I am getting a hint that there is some clashing which is why you raised this thread because you feel it...but that's just me projecting on person I don't know cause that's prob what I'd do. 

This is probably the forth time I encounter that in this week. The problem is I avoid that because I couldn't find an answer to that. I am not really sure how would I bring any value to life?

[Michael569]

@non_nothing https://actualized.org/life-purpose-course

this helped me figure it out