Dropping The Body After Enlightenment?

[iTommy]

1 hour ago, tecladocasio said:

@Inliytened1 But he said ''one still perceives duality within non-duality''. How can be one perceiving? If there is, that's duality. There is no one perceiving and that's why it's nonsense. It's just a intellectualization of something that can't be true.

See, that's the thing I find tricky to communicate in regards to enlightenment. Language is dualistic, and misunderstandings happen. I could deduct more things about what I wrote, and deem it as wrong since it can be perceived as such from another perspective. For example, I could claim that there's no enlightenment at all, or that enlightenment already is and that saying "after enlightenment..." would be false, or as you wrote, there's no-one to get enlightened/a perceiver. It all comes down to interpretation and perspective.

That's why I didn't answer your first question properly, since I know where that game usually leads. 

-----

Hopefully, I can make it more clear with what I meant by ''one still perceives duality within non-duality". I meant, that "you" still navigate reality in a human form, or from the POV of a human, only that "you're" conscious of the illusion/the "dream" and that you're not a human fundamentally. You can still differentiate and put things into categories for practical purposes.  

5 hours ago, Nahm said:

Duality isn’t perceived within nonduality, nonduality is known in spite of the illusion duality, like remembering in spite of having forgotten, but what was forgotten was No Thing / The Substance Of Not Knowing / You. A body isn’t dropped, there never was a body. Duality isn’t dropped, because it never actually was some thing, delusion is dropped, in recognition there isn’t any. There is only Being recognizing and knowing itself. 

I may have not communicated it properly, since what you wrote about here, is what I wanted to convey. That's what I find tricky to communicate. I meant that one can still differentiate and put things into categories/dualites for practical purposes in everyday life, yet knowing that "one" is this "no-thingness", God, reality itself. 

 

 @Inliytened1 Yea, I've only had a few glimpses of non-duality/small breakthroughs, yet those were just... glimpses. Some say that those glimpses mean nothing at all, since you usually regenerate the perception of an ego navigating a physical world after a while. There seems to be quite some ego-fog that I yet have to go beyond, vividly seeing it for what it is/for what things are. Even though I imagine, that it's more simpler than what my mind makes it out to be. The mind tends to complicate things, conceptualize etc. Once enlightenment occurs, first then I think that one really gets the simplicity of it. 

 

[Inliytened1]

@iTommy yes i knew what you meant thats what i was trying to convey to him.

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Hellspeed]

10 hours ago, iTommy said:

Harry Potter on his Nimbus 2000. 

Sounds fair and after the realization according to my knowledge, one still perceives duality within non-duality. So I wonder why many apparently do drop the physical body from a duality POV. I've read that some ascended masters continue to help and teach in other realms, such as the astral realm. 

When one realizes that the body isn't them, or only a part of them, is it really a death praising idea at that point from their perspective?

The body is also "them", cannot be dropped, otherwise you saying that the ego and mind entities take over nrwborns, this is a satanic idea in the most macabre sense my padawan.

[SgtPepper]

when you reach high states of consciousness. The body appears ghost-like, so it's happening, but its not really there. Additionally, there is no "where" to go, if you go somewhere its in the imagination where all perceptions come from.

[Nahm]

@iTommy I hear ya. ? A decent contemplation might be, without a thinker of thoughts, do thoughts arise? Why would they and for what? Duality arises in a nondualist, but does duality arise within nonduality? 

[iTommy]

36 minutes ago, Hellspeed said:

The body is also "them", cannot be dropped, otherwise you saying that the ego and mind entities take over nrwborns, this is a satanic idea in the most macabre sense my padawan.

For example, Om Swami in his book "If truth be told" mentiones that he thought about dropping his body, yet he didn't. The same thing is mentioned in "spiritual" literature, and that some ascended masters operate on other realms of existence which I assume might happen when the body is dropped. Afterall it's possible to astral project, and apparently one can meet other beings there during the projection. Yet this is all speculation about what it could really mean.

[iTommy]

38 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Without a thinker of thoughts, do thoughts arise?

Without a thinker/self-concept, thought seems to arise, or rather it's perceived but also disappears into a blank space/nothing/silence. This empty space/silence is what part of "me" thinks is what I am, since when the mind tries to grasp/hold onto this space that is seemingly blank and it feels as if it's infinite, it seems incapable to do so including obectifying it. That in itself might be another conceptualization, that may be a hindrance.

44 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Why would they and for what? 

Thought seems to be beneficial in creating dualities, creating categories and differentiating especially when connected to a self-image. With a firm self-image in place, thoughts about survival of that self-image seem to dominate the thought process. It seems that the primary purpose of thought is conceptualization of what is perceived, mainly for sustaining a self-image, for really getting immersed within the dream of life and thus creating different characters/personas that may or may not interact well with oneanother. 

57 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Duality arises in a nondualist, but does duality arise within nonduality? 

I had to think about that one for a while. I'd say that non-duality is in itself non-dual. Within non-duality, duality can arise or rather be conceptualized by thought intertwined with emotions and interpreted as duality, creating the perspective of an illusory individual ego-self which is usually creating/sustaining those real-feeling/sense and self-limiting concepts about what "I am/It is", about what reality is. Thus it feels as if this individual "me" is somehow different that other "me's", and this can create the conceptual barrier between the interpreted duality and consciously recognizing the whole/reality itself/non-duality. 

Deep stuff... 

 

[WelcometoReality]

3 hours ago, iTommy said:

See, that's the thing I find tricky to communicate in regards to enlightenment. Language is dualistic, and misunderstandings happen. I could deduct more things about what I wrote, and deem it as wrong since it can be perceived as such from another perspective. For example, I could claim that there's no enlightenment at all, or that enlightenment already is and that saying "after enlightenment..." would be false, or as you wrote, there's no-one to get enlightened/a perceiver. It all comes down to interpretation and perspective.

That's why I didn't answer your first question properly, since I know where that game usually leads. 

-----

Hopefully, I can make it more clear with what I meant by ''one still perceives duality within non-duality". I meant, that "you" still navigate reality in a human form, or from the POV of a human, only that "you're" conscious of the illusion/the "dream" and that you're not a human fundamentally. You can still differentiate and put things into categories for practical purposes.  

I enjoyed reading that. Thank you.

[Nahm]

@iTommy Great stuff! 

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[Inliytened1]

 

2 hours ago, iTommy said:

 

I had to think about that one for a while. I'd say that non-duality is in itself non-dual. Within non-duality, duality can arise or rather be conceptualized by thought intertwined with emotions and interpreted as duality, creating the perspective of an illusory individual ego-self which is usually creating/sustaining those real-feeling/sense and self-limiting concepts about what "I am/It is", about what reality is. Thus it feels as if this individual "me" is somehow different that other "me's", and this can create the conceptual barrier between the interpreted duality and consciously recognizing the whole/reality itself/non-duality. 

Deep stuff... 

 

@iTommy ??

[Inliytened1]

@iTommy Glimpses can be very profound sometimes hours or days afterwards - consciousness will expand.