Why is knowing something is a concept not enough to get rid of traumatic psychology

[Aakash]

I’ll give another one: I feel like I’ve let down my parents constantly with the grades I’ve got because I don’t really work hard. So I try to strive to become rich so that when other parents look they won’t see my parents parenting as wasted efforts. Let’s face it, becoming conscious of enlightenment doesn’t count for anything to other parents. They only care about material wealth and job titles at this point in time. So It’s so deeply ingrained in me to become successful and do something amazing so nobody looks at the family and say that my parents spoiled me and I didn’t make anything out of myself. 

Emotional Side rant defending myself; pssst  like they know how complex it is to think about enlightenment and that’s why their kids are able to live normal lifestyles. 

[Nahm]

@Aakash Eventually aspects of you would be revealed as falsity, purged & vanish, having gone deeper into yourself. Currently your focus is on fears, and bees & wasps, while you’re actually getting stung by overthinking, attachment & identification, suppression, and some denial... and not practicing, expanding on your well being & health, doing consciousness work, purification, etc. 

I believe your sense of tension is the relativity of your ability to be doing exactly what you want to be doing, but aren’t because of emotional avoidance, which fuels overthinking, which makes focusing difficult when it could otherwise be effortless. If you were doing what you truly wanted, life would purify you along the way, and you’d feel quite aligned. “Purification” would be recontextualized, relative to how you think of it now. IF you are not discovery and or doing what you really want to, get he best assistance you can find. I believe what you really desire to be doing, is trying all kinds of things, without knowing what they are right now. Without knowing ahead of time what will help, trying things. In a way, that is what ultimately helps. It’d be extremely rare that one single method would be enough, wether that’s general health or enlightenment. 

In any case, utilize every resource available. As soon as you start the smallest step, you’ll feel relief. 

 

[winterknight]

46 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@winterknight your right, I can’t argue with that. If I’m being honest, it’s quite bad now that I think about it, but I think I unconsciously took inspiration from Leo reading thousands of books and it seeming like he sorted out his psychology. 

Which now i understand is kinda stupid 

but it was reinforced by the fact there are so many enlightened people on here!!!! And I bet none of them went to psychologists, (except you) so it means that it WAS possible to do it through reading books etc. 

If he sorted out his psychology, it's because he spent years and years reading these books, thinking about them, and trying to apply them. It wasn't just some idea acquired from a book -- it was the enormous time and effort spent engaging with all these different ideas and trying to understand and apply them. And whether he had psychologists or not (and the psychoanalysts I recommend are not just regular psychologists -- they are particular specialists), he probably had close guides and mentors beyond just an internet discussion forum.

Edited June 4, 2019 by winterknight

[Aakash]

@Nahm sounds like you hit the nail on the head, I don’t want to do something out of proving that it’s possible or to make people think I’m actually a smart person. After all this enlightenment work that I’ve done (even if it’s been under par) I just want to do something because I want to, but I feel psychologically trapped. I think this is a new day for me, I feel like an idiot for being unconscious so long that I even have these problems. But I only feel I could ever find what I love doing after spiritual work but I could never force myself to do something I like out of sheer survival. Which is why I don’t want to spend 20 years trying to prove something that is wrong because it’s ingrained into my psychology 

[Aakash]

@winterknight yeah i never thought of it like that. I think it is time for me to do psychoanalytics. I’ll come ask you about it another day when I have money for three sessions a week or so  thank you. 

[Nahm]

@Aakash

Yes, great distinctions. Love to see a ‘psychoanalysis report’. It’d be great for some testimony from direct experience to get some exposure here.  

It’s a natural transition too, where it seems you’re at in life. A shift if you will, form parental influence to independence, on a lot of levels. That growth can be noticed & appreciated, and enjoyed. Decades from now, in hindsight, you’ll be glad if you enjoyed each day to your best ability, regardless of what that is any given day. 

[winterknight]

19 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@winterknight yeah i never thought of it like that. I think it is time for me to do psychoanalytics. I’ll come ask you about it another day when I have money for three sessions a week or so  thank you. 

You can do it once a week to start. It's fine, definitely a lot better than nothing.

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Aakash said:

Why is it that knowing something is a concept, not enough to stop you thinking about something traumatic that happened.

One side of the coin is what transpired, the other side is the identification created in response. 

So for example, if I do inner psychology work and get to the root of the problem and understand it as conceptually wrong. 

The identification beliefs are deeper than the conceptual doesn’t-really-involve-me logic level. That is work worth doing, as it filters and skews all experience. 

Why does it not instantly get rid of it ?  

Because it’s part of you, which isn’t really part of you, and truly letting it go means you wouldn’t be talking about it now.  Exploring the sensations, releasing the emotions, purification yes...but not reliving the conceptual over and over, recreating it in thought. That’s circular; trying to fix thinking with more thinking, more thought story. That actually prevents the release. Consider the reports of solo retreats, and the power of ‘sitting with it’, triggering releases, and deeper clarity & understanding arising.  

I feel like if I work on it practically then I’m giving power to the traumatic experience to then get over it. So at first I thought if I conceptually understood it, it would vanish. But this doesn’t seem the case 

A different verbiage / approach...understand it with your emotional intelligence, and much thinking rests. Learn as needed. 

I don’t want to do something motivated by an experience I went through that was not me anyway. 

Great reason to find and do what works for you, what fully releases the past. 

Note: I say traumatic experience but it was just something really personal, that felt traumatic. 

That’s a good start. Try to take ownership for the internal creation of the experience. Understand why you felt like you are this and that - because this thing or that thing happened. The effect experiences had on you, in terms of how you defined who you are, what you’re like. Free of those ‘blockages’, your focus and creativity, and movement towards wanted, starts flowing. We’re all just doing our best, whoever was in your past, though sometimes hard to believe, they were doing their best also. If we were them, we’d have done the same things. Aim for that level of emotional understanding. 

 

[Truth Addict]

@Aakash

Sometimes it can heal you directly. Sometimes it can't and work is needed.

[universe]

Why is knowing something is a concept not enough to get rid of traumatic psychology

A: Because emotions are still there and you need to disidentify with the issue

Bee-anxiety

A: When you try to capture a bee the next time, feel into the fear that arises. Say yes to the fear. See what happens.

Cancer-healing-hero

A: Find out what in you has this need for approval. Feel into it. Then let it go (could be a long process).

 

I would suggest you check out Leos videos on emotional mastery.

[Jkris]

@Aakash Leo has stated that enlightenment is different from emotional mastery.And it requires lot of effort for that.

Traditionally inner purification is mandatory before pursuing enlightenment.

But reverse is also easy I guess.Enlightenment first and then emotional mastery or purification.

But except very few in my limited interactions talk about emotional mastery.

So if you are enlightened that is the next step I guess.

[WelcometoReality]

@Aakash The trauma is in the body. When fear arises you can look where in the body it arises from. Even when you have realized that it's not true conceptually the body still have the trauma engrained. 

To get rid of the fear of wasps you need to meet that fear. Preferably start with videos and pictures of wasps then continue to real wasps when those stop triggering fear.

[Arhattobe]

@Aakash because knowing is basic. “I know I’m the self and the self has nothing to fear”... cool, but your animalistic instincts and years of conditioning don’t give a shit lol.... that’s where the real path starts. 

You can’t put game your physical system with thoughts, “understandings” that are experiential, conceptual and so on. 

Thats what Theravada Buddhism is about and why it emphasises getting rid of cravings instead of some non dual gibberish.

[wavydude]

@winterknight From my expirence some traumatic emotions can get " trapped " in the body in the form of chronic pain ex. back pain etc. 

Do you know any help for that  ? Can geting rid of truama with psychoanalysis also make you more relaxted in the body and release these pains ?

[winterknight]

7 hours ago, wavydude said:

@winterknight From my expirence some traumatic emotions can get " trapped " in the body in the form of chronic pain ex. back pain etc. 

Do you know any help for that  ? Can geting rid of truama with psychoanalysis also make you more relaxted in the body and release these pains ?

Yes. In fact psychoanalysis itself started with traumatic pain of just the type of pain you were talking about. Freud treated women who had what when then called hysteria and would today be called conversion disorder -- women who, because of traumatic emotions, had strange and inexplicable paralyses, numbnesses, and other physical symptoms.

[moon777light]

look up Dr. nicole lapera aka "the holistic psychologist"

this is basically her line of work. You cant use your rational mind to fix things that are not rational. The only way to fix problems that arise form non rational areas (emotions, etc) is through strength-ning areas of your brain that regulate non rational stuff. And guess whats the only way to strenghten that? meditation! psychedelics! Journaling your emotions! they all work on the medial prefrontal cortex of your brain which is basically the brain that controls how your emotional self will respond to triggers, etc. Long story short, raising your consciousness will help immensly. Throwing everything at a psychologist is rarely gonna get to the root cause. Theyll help you see whats wrong, and bring out the emotions, but they cant fix it for you. And they ask a very $$$$ price for bringing out your emotions. When going to therapy to fix the root cause, youll need at least a year of consistent therapy. Sometimes several years. If you want to fix something surface level (like symptoms) then it will take only a few visits. 

 

[Farnaby]

15 hours ago, Aakash said:

Why is it that knowing something is a concept, not enough to stop you thinking about something traumatic that happened. So for example, if I do inner psychology work and get to the root of the problem and understand it as conceptually wrong. 

Why does it not instantly get rid of it ?  

I feel like if I work on it practically then I’m giving power to the traumatic experience to then get over it. So at first I thought if I conceptually understood it, it would vanish. But this doesn’t seem the case 

I don’t want to do something motivated by an experience I went through that was not me anyway. 

Note: I say traumatic experience but it was just something really personal, that felt traumatic. 

 

@Aakash The fact that you recognized that knowing something intelectually isn't enough is a huge step. Lots of people seek out psychological help and get frustrated when they notice talking about their problems offers some relief but isn't enough to change deeply engrained habits.

This doesn't mean that going to a psychologist is useless. It means, they can't solve for you what you have to fix yourself. However, they can be of great help in this process, especially psychologists who are genuine, present and go deep to help you get in touch with your body. Another crucial aspect IMO is whether the psychologist has him/herself walked some path of deep emotional healing. 

Why does it not instantly get rid of it ?

I think one reason for this is directly related to what I said before: what creates problems in our life stems from habits that we have carried along with us for a long time, creating lots of neuronal paths that are not easy to change. 

Another important reason is the fact that trauma usually gets stuck in the body. If it didn't "get stuck" it wouldn't be traumatic. It's not the experiences we go through that make them traumatic but how we deal with them and how we're supported in the process of integrating intense experiences. In order to really solve trauma we need to get deeply in touch with all the sensations that got stock in our body. 

Also, some of our traumatic experiences happened when we hadn't developed language yet so they can't be healed through language or conceptual understanding. 

 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Farnaby

[Aakash]

Thank you all for your responses, much to think about; I have one more noticeable question and that is: 

in this day and age the average response to dealing with something mental experiences and thought stories - is to “move on and forget about it” this will require you to take a mentally strong approach. Meaning it’s an automatic suppression. To bury it deep down and forget it forever. This is why society rewards people who are mentally strong. However my question is: is this a method of denial? Rather than spending years on the root problem. We continue to define and justify ourselves via our thought stories, I.e I just went through this and this is why I am who I am. 

This denial is the action of going to the gym after you realise you are too skinny to get girls or must grind daily like to make money. These “mentally strong” ideas that people pick up from self help books to sort out issues. Are these just forms of denials and living a life of unresolved issues 

after looking at your responses I would rephrase it to, does perceiving yourself as mentally strong and grinding to get to something at all outcomes a denial because the energy of that trauma or emotions is still stuck in your body? 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Aakash

[winterknight]

7 minutes ago, Aakash said:

Thank you all for your responses, much to think about; I have one more noticeable question and that is: 

in this day and age the average response to dealing with something mental experiences and thought stories - is to “move on and forget about it” this will require you to take a mentally strong approach. Meaning it’s an automatic suppression. To bury it deep down and forget it forever. This is why society rewards people who are mentally strong. However my question is: is this a method of denial? Rather than spending years on the root problem. We continue to define and justify ourselves via our thought stories, I.e I just went through this and this is why I am who I am. 

This denial is the action of going to the gym after you realise you are too skinny to get girls or must grind daily like to make money. These “mentally strong” ideas that people pick up from self help books to sort out issues. Are these just forms of denials and living a life of unresolved issues 

 

I think you already know the answer. 

[Aakash]

Yeah your right , I do but let’s say hypothetically , I took a mentally strong approach 

I grinded out the gym long enough to get some muscles that girls like and I gain more confidence in the process, so now I am not thinking about the stage mentally I was in before. This thinking is gone , does the fear of needing to go gym to get girls still remain underneath in denial or has it gone because I was mentally tough and grinded without liking actually going to the gym?