Healthier survival strategies

[Norbert Lennartz]

Leo speaks about the "healthier survival strategies".

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Because life requires order and a certain degree of stability. As a community we need to reach a consensus about which survival strategies are healthy and acceptable. This is not avoidable.

So don't make the mistake of thing you know what I'm advocating for here is anarchy or no government, not at all.

 

That’s a mistake. Government is just in opposite of consent.
 

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We just need to be very conscious about how we do government.

..when we can’t avoid it.
But on state level, you need to know what it means firstly! See Rothbards Anatomy of the State. State is a troublemaker.
State leads to disorder.
Even if Leo doesn't believe all that, you can see from many of his quasi anarchistic statements that he's got something comfortable with "good government". And this despite the fact that he himself knows all the self-deception mechanisms. Amazing how stubbornly these survival mechanisms work.

(That's not supposed to be harsh criticism. I agree with Leo in the main features. Invaluable work.)

[Norbert Lennartz]

@Shiva Is this a warning or admonition or directive or educational measure or something the Pope said?

[SgtPepper]

Interesting, I'll check out the book. Not really sure why you're against community though. I haven't read the book, but is it not possible that we can collectively extend our idea of the state. Specifically, we can connect the general public to the state in such a way that it can hold the state more accountable than it already is.

Additionally, why not acknowledge the good things government has done such as providing roads, education, and general appliances at an affordable rate for everyone?

 

[Norbert Lennartz]

1 hour ago, SgtPepper said:

... Not really sure why you're against community though.

I am not against the community. I am against caging. Against dangerous monopolies.

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I haven't read the book, but is it not possible that we can collectively extend our idea of the state. Specifically, we can connect the general public to the state in such a way that it can hold the state more accountable than it already is.

It's all about what Leo wants. To understand the concepts of living systems, to observe, and to recognize something that hardly anyone has understood before, instead of stupidly dying. We judge too quickly.

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Additionally, why not acknowledge the good things government has done such as providing roads, education, and general appliances at an affordable rate for everyone?

It did not do that. It only occupied everything and explains it a top priority.

[Norbert Lennartz]

You're welcome to strive for your own survival by advocating for a presupposed benevolent one world government, and dismissing the principles of self-descion and ethical praxeology in favor of your preferred form of slavery (i.e. humans claiming ownership of other humans). Slavery is nice and comfy when you are on the sun side. Even more on the dark side: You don't have to worry about what you're going to do with your own body or how you will survive because your masters will govern almost every aspect of what you can or cannot do with your body (which would technically be their body because they would enforce their claim of ownership over it). 
I want you to notice the failure point in the worldview of most, which is how there is no way of preventing purely selfish psychopaths from claiming the tip of your ideal centralized pyramid. They will do whatever is necessary to get to the top of that hierarchy and they will rule like tyrant. Those types of people won't have Y(OUR) survival in mind when they dictate their agendas from their ivory towers. 
The only way to minimize the potential damage these individuals can do is to decentralize. Centralized power is not only too damn tempting for people wired to be super effective tyrants, but it's the delusional belief that most people have in the legitimacy of such an idea that means millions of people can be rounded up and executed, or starved to death, or sent to be slaughtered in senseless wars. Let us be clear: when we advocate for government, we are advocating for these things to be.

(edit of a comment on Youtube)

Edited June 7, 2019 by Norbert Lennartz

[CreamCat]

On 6/6/2019 at 1:57 AM, Norbert Lennartz said:

I am not against the community. I am against caging. Against dangerous monopolies.

I think you might resonate with TJ Reeves.

He doesn't like to be caged, either.

[Norbert Lennartz]

On 6.6.2019 at 6:11 PM, Norbert Lennartz said:

You're welcome to strive for your own survival by advocating for a presupposed benevolent one world government, and dismissing the principles of self-descion and ethical praxeology in favor of your preferred form of slavery (i.e. humans claiming ownership of other humans). Slavery is nice and comfy when you are on the sun side. Even more on the dark side: You don't have to worry about what you're going to do with your own body or how you will survive because your masters will govern almost every aspect of what you can or cannot do with your body (which would technically be their body because they would enforce their claim of ownership over it). 
I want you to notice the failure point in the worldview of most, which is how there is no way of preventing purely selfish psychopaths from claiming the tip of your ideal centralized pyramid. They will do whatever is necessary to get to the top of that hierarchy and they will rule like tyrant. Those types of people won't have Y(OUR) survival in mind when they dictate their agendas from their ivory towers. 
The only way to minimize the potential damage these individuals can do is to decentralize. Centralized power is not only too damn tempting for people wired to be super effective tyrants, but it's the delusional belief that most people have in the legitimacy of such an idea that means millions of people can be rounded up and executed, or starved to death, or sent to be slaughtered in senseless wars. Let us be clear: when we advocate for government, we are advocating for these things to be.

(edit of a comment on Youtube)

Leo's response to the original Youtube comment was:

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It's far more complicated than that. Limitation (what you call slavery) is absolutely necessary for life. The duality between freedom and slavery ultimately collapses. You have become a slave to your ideology of freedom. See?

JS answered: 

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 Am I a slave to the ideology of freedom, or am I free from the ideology of slavery? See??

Me:

The escape into the ignorance of complexity in favor of government is the escape from metaphysics, which exposes the state as mafia, the deification of the state. Augustine already knew that. What is the state other than a gang of robbers?

What we call "laissez faire" is the most original state of all social and economic relations without a monopoly on the use of force. You don't need ideology for that. You can't use ideology to actually refute that. Of course, the individual is limited in his being. The word "freedom" traditionally strains that. But as Goethe already said: "Here I am entirely human, here I may be".

Matthew 6

24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money. 25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?

33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

So what are the criminals calling for?

 

[Shadowraix]

Perhaps try reconciling together what you oppose and what you promote. There are half truths in both. 

Also consider our current systems are a direct representation of the states of humanity. It will change as we evolve. We get it. You don't want to be forced into a system involuntarily. But you did. Here we are. Now we got to make the best of it. Annihilating the system isn't a possibility right now. Incremental changes can happen, but radical ones take time. Be strategic. 

Come here to grow and learn instead of preaching anti-government. Singing the same song over and over will get people tired of seeing you post and completely neglect what you say. You'd be talking to yourself. This is counter productive. Your strategy needs to change if you actually wish to accomplish anything. 

This is genuine advice. Be careful on how you adopt your ideals about government. It's just as bad if you turn that into an ideology. You'd be no matter than the pro government people you criticize for being ideological. 

Dipping your toes in other topics wouldn't hurt too.. This is a personal development forum. Politics isn't the only thing here. 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Shadowraix