Unaddicting from Agreement

[Nahm]

When you let thoughts go clearer thoughts arise. That can go on all the way from overthinking to channeling. When you let the insights go deeper ones arise, and that can go all the way to awakening. Eventually you’re emptied, and that can be enlightening. I think it’s fair to say our Being, our Love, is more readily shareable. You might try a reiki class. It’s amazing how spending time putting yourself aside for someone else’s healing can reveal a whole new depth of the possibilities of self. It’s quite possible your energy excess is actually a natural gift in the spiritual sector, for healing...but intellect is trying to make sense of it, intellectually. It would makes sense of why sharing conceptually leaves you unsatisfied emotionally. 

[flowboy]

9 hours ago, Shin said:

That tells me she has touched something right though

 I don't know, I really feel like there was anger behind that last message, and I can't trust someone to be helpful if they have a chip on the wrong shoulder

That said, I don't like being called controlling, my ex girlfriend used to accuse me of being a controlling asshole.

Edited June 4, 2019 by flowboy

[Shin]

7 minutes ago, flowboy said:

 I don't know, I really feel like there was anger behind that last message, and I can't trust someone to be helpful if they have a chip on the wrong shoulder

That said, I don't like being called controlling, my ex girlfriend used to accuse me of being a controlling asshole.

She was not angry.
You project that on her because you know deep down what she's saying is true, it's unconscious scapegoating.

Yeah, you don't like it, because you know that ex girlfriend is right, but you don't want to accept it, so it makes you mad
From what you've said, how you write, how you react to posts, I can tell that the chance of you being a controlling asshole is pretty high  

[flowboy]

@Shin  Interesting.

It hasn't come up previously when I did an ego feedback workshop which was pretty harsh.

But I did learn there to take feedback in as if it were true. Try it on, see if it fits.

So I will consider it and ask around a bit.

Thank you

[Shin]

Just now, flowboy said:

@Shin  Interesting.

It hasn't come up previously when I did an ego feedback workshop which was pretty harsh.

But I did learn there to take feedback in as if it were true. Try it on, see if it fits.

So I will consider it and ask around a bit.

Thank you

If it is true (I can't know for sure ofc), then you mind will do everything not to look at it.

So be very cautious has to what your thoughts tells you, they are mostly playing tricks on you.

[flowboy]

I asked some other ex girlfriends and a long time friend who is a psychologist.

We'll see

Still, I am pretty sure that I didn't give enough information in this thread to determine that I engage in a negative way, or am being controlling. And the "offensive" part is just weird to me, seems like it's personal for her.

15 hours ago, Flatworld Crusades said:

You need to see that being triggered to engage in a negative way to debate is an issue that needs addressing. It's controlling, offensive and arrogant.

Also, I don't think offensive is a bad thing. If I'm not offending people at times, I'm not being honest.

[flowboy]

11 hours ago, Nahm said:

When you let thoughts go clearer thoughts arise. That can go on all the way from overthinking to channeling. When you let the insights go deeper ones arise, and that can go all the way to awakening.

Wow. That's beautiful! Thank you

11 hours ago, Nahm said:

It’s quite possible your energy excess is actually a natural gift in the spiritual sector, for healing...but intellect is trying to make sense of it, intellectually. It would makes sense of why sharing conceptually leaves you unsatisfied emotionally

@Nahm  Deep and powerful these words. Will take some time to 'cook' in me. Feels true

[LastThursday]

1 hour ago, flowboy said:

Also, I don't think offensive is a bad thing. If I'm not offending people at times, I'm not being honest.

Like beauty, being offended is in the eye of the beholder. It also works both ways, if you want to offend others then be prepared to be offended yourself; after all maybe they're just being honest?

[flowboy]

@LastThursday  I agree. I love honesty.

[flowboy]

Well I'm still not quite sure what I think of @Flatworld Crusades's interpretation, but it's very clear that I was triggered and got unnecessarily defensive. I sent her an apology which I hope she'll accept. I was quite out of line and I feel pretty embarrassed.

[flowboy]

I asked around about the controlling thing.

Me: Would you say I'm a controlling asshole? I got some feedback and am trying to figure out if it holds water.

Ex girlfriend A: "Pickup is asshole-ish in my view.. generally I think you mostly do use your empathy when you make decisions and you do care about the people you like! Still, I get the impression that you are (lately) very self-centered and super busy with your issues/problems/needs..which might make them appear very important.. maybe more important than the interests of others in some areas.. but I don't know, you seem to have changed a lot.

Controlling? Yes, but luckily not to others but yourself.. it feels tight even when I am hearing about all todo's and planning. I am sorry to say but it seems that you are kind of desperate with those structuring things.. which is really sad if I am right. I don't think that the way you try to control yourself can be of any help in a long term perspective.."

Me: Would you say I'm a controlling asshole? I got some feedback and am trying to figure out if it holds water.

Best Friend J: "I think not. You can sometimes be a person who tries to force his beliefs onto others. Which naturally also has positive sides to it, but I don't know whether that falls under 'controlling asshole'."

So far, it seems like I'm not generally a controlling person towards others, in the sense that I try to control their behaviour. But apparently I've been known to force my ideas self-righteously upon others. This is probably related to what I'm looking for in this thread.

This thought experiment has made me realise some situations where I do get controlling: when I'm invested in something and take the first step, I desperately control others to follow me and take the same step right the fuck now, or I feel abandoned. I wrote that one down for myself to think about further.

But I've asked some more people, we'll see.

[d0ornokey]

I do the same thing you're doing now, as a strategy to avoid doing the actual work and growth. It's just a fuck ton of mental masturbation, dancing around the idea without actually going right to the CORE. 

Is that you too? 

Be very, brutally, extremely honest with yourself. Desire to know the truth, despite the change and cost that will come from it 

---

But regarding if you're being a controlling asshole, it seems like your ex is projecting on you. 

What about specific examples that make you seem like that? And analyze and develop insight around that

Edited June 4, 2019 by d0ornokey

[flowboy]

1 hour ago, d0ornokey said:

I do the same thing you're doing now, as a strategy to avoid doing the actual work and growth. It's just a fuck ton of mental masturbation, dancing around the idea without actually going right to the CORE. 

@d0ornokey Which thing? I'm using the situations where I get triggered to map out my patterns, collecting feedback from people and figuring out where the pain is coming from, what started it. I can use that information to do emotional work on it, like catharsis, as well as recognizing the patterns more easily so I can make a conscious choice to act differently.

In my view that is doing the work. What else could it be? What idea am I dancing around? I'm genuinely curious.

[flowboy]

1 hour ago, d0ornokey said:

What about specific examples that make you seem like that? And analyze and develop insight around that

I don't really have many of those. This whole thing started because someone suggested I could be.

Edit: no, I do. The questioning has brought up some examples.

• When taking initiative, or the first step in something that was mutually agreed upon, I can get quite demanding that others follow right this second, or I feel deep abandonment
• When someone is asking me to explain, and then I can't make them understand, in my mind they are refusing to stop being stupid and this can send me into a rage. It feels like they abandoned me as a friend because they are not going along with my thoughts. Like they promised to understand me and now they broke that promise.
• When I was in an open relationship, I used strict rules to control her behaviour in situations where the chance for her to emotionally abandon me seemed pretty high. I was fearful of her betraying me/being emotionally disloyal/unfaithful, and I tried to control that by making strict rules and using that as a measure to cling to. And I demonized her for not sticking to them.

• No acknowledgement: In conversation with for example an attractive girl, anywhere I feel judged/evaluated, I don't acknowledge what people say. I don't respond to it or really process it. Because I'm too scared to see signs that they're not invested, not following me. And it feels like everything I say is useless, because they will discover that I am a loser anyway and ruthlessly mistreat me for it.

Edited June 4, 2019 by flowboy

[flowboy]

Not sure if it's because of the asking people for feedback, but I got some more examples of where I was being controlling, and I feel like absolute shit today and I'm failing to enjoy even simple things. Also had really weird tense dreams about fighting with my parents.

I'm assuming it's part of the process. Not sure what to do next here

Edited June 5, 2019 by flowboy

[LastThursday]

Not give up? Just let the feedback sink in over the coming days and weeks, that's all. Don't overthink it at this point.

Examining yourself and getting to know yourself, the good and even the shitty parts is always painful and can be brutal (I know). The ego will want to push back and make you feel like shit or weird, so you stop doing it. Don't stop. But do take it easy on yourself, just a bit at a time, not too much.

 

[Flatworld Crusades]

On 5 June 2019 at 2:01 AM, flowboy said:

Well I'm still not quite sure what I think of @Flatworld Crusades's interpretation, but it's very clear that I was triggered and got unnecessarily defensive. I sent her an apology which I hope she'll accept. I was quite out of line and I feel pretty embarrassed.

Received and accepted.  All resolved and no need for embarrassment. This is a place of learning ?

[flowboy]

Just a quick status update.

Before this topic got derailed into an (honestly quite depressing) hunt for character flaws in myself, I actually was on to something.

I just didn't know that it would happen by itself.

I find myself trusting my own judgment over anybody else's.

The issue I was originally talking about was partly that I didn't feel sure enough of myself to make decisions in the face of derision and adversity.

Recently, I had a good experience where all of my environment expressed their lack of confidence in my plan. I held true to my own view and pushed forward anyway, telling any non-believer to trust me, and just wait and see. And it turned out to be a good decision.

I'm moving away from seeking agreement, and needing to bounce my thoughts off people regularly, and moving towards guaging what the person I'm speaking with is able to understand, what paradigm he is in, and how his experience compares to mine, and tailoring what I share to that.

So I'm giving them the part they can probably relate to, and shutting up about the rest.

I'm learning when to keep my mouth shut, basically. Giving up the need to be able to share any thought honestly, regardless of the level of awareness of the person in front of me.

Thank you all.

[d0ornokey]

10 hours ago, flowboy said:

I held true to my own view and pushed forward anyway

Very proud of you