I fear I have one itis (crush) for this girl and it's poisoning me

[DrewNows]

2 minutes ago, flowboy said:

@DrewNows  At least we both have billiesimon's best interest at heart. Let's see what he decides to do and what we can learn from that.

yeah man. I mean nothing personal in calling you out. 

I have ended a few friendships just like how he describes and later realized how immature and pointless it was to behave this way. Even seemed to promote my own thought patterns of fearfulness of girls judging my behavior

[jbram2002]

3 hours ago, billiesimon said:

Would you want to be a friend with a girl you desire but doesn't reciprocate? 
It hurts A LOT to see her date other guys while you are friendzoned.

This is how a lot of my most healthy friendships started back in high school. Man up. Be her friend if she's important to you. Leaving her just because she's interested in someone else makes you very shallow.

In fact, my relationship with my wife started this way. Nothing in life is all or nothing.

[Shin]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

Yes. If I like him enough to want to be with him, chances are I'm already friends with him. So, I will not stop being friends with a guy just because he doesn't like me back. If I do that, then that makes me a really bad friend and means that I never really cared about him to begin with. 

Also, as a woman, I know from personal experience that it hurts to be fuck-zoned. A guy pretends that he wants to be friends with you, but he just wants to have sex with or date you. Then, when you tell him that you don't see him that way he says he felt like he wasted his time or something like that. It feels very objectifying. 

 

@billiesimon

See, it's also hurting her.

Don't use the excuse that she sees you as a loser and won't care, that is most likely not the case ...

Edited June 2, 2019 by Shin

[DrewNows]

3 minutes ago, Shin said:

See, it's also hurting her.

Don't use the excuse that she see you as a loser and won't care, that is most likely not the case ...

yes it is simply a projection of one's own self beliefs onto her

[DrewNows]

17 minutes ago, jbram2002 said:

This is how a lot of my most healthy friendships started back in high school. Man up. Be her friend if she's important to you. Leaving her just because she's interested in someone else makes you very shallow.

Dude she was so special to him he changed who he was for her. He didn't act like himself because he could only think about how he might lose her if he expressed himself honestly. If he continues to act in-authentically, he's disrespect for himself will turn into a disrespect for her. He must do the work on his beliefs/perspective

Edited June 2, 2019 by DrewNows

[ColdFacts]

You can't have it both ways, it's like walking forwards and backwards at the same time, your options depend on each other, you can only choose one. I think the best is to ask her out in your case. After whatever decision she makes tell her why you had to do this, and see where it goes from there.

[Shin]

15 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

yes it is simply a projection of one's own self beliefs onto her

I'm actually sending a sms to a girl I met 1 year ago ...

[billiesimon]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

Yes. If I like him enough to want to be with him, chances are I'm already friends with him. So, I will not stop being friends with a guy just because he doesn't like me back. If I do that, then that makes me a really bad friend and means that I never really cared about him to begin with. 

Also, as a woman, I know from personal experience that it hurts to be fuck-zoned. A guy pretends that he wants to be friends with you, but he just wants to have sex with or date you. Then, when you tell him that you don't see him that way he says he felt like he wasted his time or something like that. It feels very objectifying. 

 

@Emerald You're mistaking my intentions.

It's not my intention to hurt her at all! I just want to tell her that I liked her, not that she is in the fuckbuddy-zone. She is not a one night stand for me. I like her romantically, I have feelings. If she tells me that she doesn't reciprocate, I'm not going to objectify her, why would I? 

I'll just reply by telling her that I'm sorry, and then I'll move on with my life. I'm not going to tell her horrible words like "you wasted my time". She never wasted my time, I am the one at fault here. In fact I'm going to tell her that I'm the guilty one.

[DrewNows]

4 minutes ago, ColdFacts said:

You can't have it both ways, it's like walking forwards and backwards at the same time, your options depend on each other, you can only choose one. I think the best is to ask her out in your case. After whatever decision she makes tell her why you had to do this, and see where it goes from there.

sounds like someone hasn't heard of the moonwalk 

he's rejection leads to the end of his fake friendship with her and in turn leads to her unnecessary suffering 

[billiesimon]

27 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

I think you should definitely let her know.

Whether it is by telling it verbally by asking her on a date or by making her understand it gradually is your choice, but I'd go personally for the second option.

You can change slightly your behavior towards her in that direction and build it up until you get a hint from her.

I'm afraid she'd get a bit surprised if you ask her straight out for a date.  She might turn you down out of feeling uncomfortable and pressured, before having the time to fully process the option and reconsider you as a potential romantic partner. 

--

As per remaining friends- I'd go the middle way. 

Do not cut her out if she says no. That would be childish and a waste of a friendship. Wanting to posses her or nothing is egoic af. Really caring about someone doesn't look like that.

Just act wisely by listening to your own needs while also caring for hers. Perhaps just don't seek her company until you've healed your wounds a bit and accepted the situation if she's not reciprocating. 

I like this response. Because it's empathetic and multi-perspective  

Somehow I will make her understand, but right now I don't know if I will run away from her or keep some kind of affection. I just know deep inside that I have to make her somehow aware of the feelings.

[billiesimon]

28 minutes ago, Shin said:

@billiesimon

See, it's also hurting her.

Don't use the excuse that she sees you as a loser and won't care, that is most likely not the case ...

I can assure you that she doesn't care that much... She has other friends and never showed that much empathy towards me. I can bet money on the fact that she is close to indifferent about my possible disappearance. I'm not relevant in her life.

So you're suggesting that I should HIDE from her my actual feelings? That sounds dishonest.

[DrewNows]

@billiesimonyoure so attached man...youre best off with this advice 

1 hour ago, DrewNows said:

if you want to be honest with your friend simply tell her you cant see her for a while because you don't respect yourself and you need to work on that. You don't gotta spill your guts out and make your friendship awkward or end it. Simply commit to giving yourself the love to grow and learn through dating/interaction

 

[billiesimon]

8 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

sounds like someone hasn't heard of the moonwalk 

he's rejection leads to the end of his fake friendship with her and in turn leads to her unnecessary suffering 

When you don't care about a random guy you don't suffer. She has her life. And I'm not going to tell her mean things, I'm going to be gentle and polite. I'm a nice guy in my everyday life.

I'm just saying that she couldn't care less, I'm just a dude who has had some compliance with her, that's all. She has bigger fishes to care about.

[DrewNows]

2 minutes ago, billiesimon said:

When you don't care about a random guy you don't suffer. She has her life. And I'm not going to tell her mean things, I'm going to be gentle and polite. I'm a nice guy in my everyday life.

I'm just saying that she couldn't care less, I'm just a dude who has had some compliance with her, that's all. She has bigger fishes to care about.

It is you who doesn't care about your god damn bloody self. Don't project your self beliefs onto her. But if my suggestion doesn't work for your ego then do what you gotta do. Either way you gotta do the work and i wish you the best with that 

[billiesimon]

21 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

It is you who doesn't care about your god damn bloody self. Don't project your self beliefs onto her. But if my suggestion doesn't work for your ego then do what you gotta do. Either way you gotta do the work and i wish you the best with that 

What do you mean that I don't care about myself? It doesn't seem like that to me.

[DrewNows]

19 minutes ago, billiesimon said:

What do you mean that I don't care about myself? It doesn't seem like that to me.

Yes you can’t see it yet but basically you put her needs above yours in the way you show up in the relationship/friendship 

and enforce your own self beliefs based off the reciprocation you expect to receive in your interactions 

Edited June 3, 2019 by DrewNows

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, billiesimon said:

@Emerald You're mistaking my intentions.

It's not my intention to hurt her at all! I just want to tell her that I liked her, not that she is in the fuckbuddy-zone. She is not a one night stand for me. I like her romantically, I have feelings. If she tells me that she doesn't reciprocate, I'm not going to objectify her, why would I? 

I'll just reply by telling her that I'm sorry, and then I'll move on with my life. I'm not going to tell her horrible words like "you wasted my time". She never wasted my time, I am the one at fault here. In fact I'm going to tell her that I'm the guilty one.

That's why I also included romantic intentions in general in the last post. It's not just guys who are looking for sex that do this. It's guys who are looking for relationships too. 

So, make no mistake, it will make her lose respect for you and will make her feel really shitty if she values your friendship. Now, I'm sure this has happened to her before, because it happens to women a lot. And either way, it feels very objectifying to have a guy that you thought cared about you genuinely as a friend, up and leave when he finds out that you don't see him that way. That's what it is to be fuck-zoned.

So, pretending to be her friend in hopes that you can get into a relationship, feels only slightly less objectifying than if you were just pretending to be her friend to get into her pants. If it happened to you in that way, you would know and hate the feeling. But unfortunately, you'll probably never experience it to know how it feels.

 

 

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, DrewNows said:

yes it is simply a projection of one's own self beliefs onto her

Absolutely correct. Women generally don't have a lack of respect for men they're not attracted to. They just see them as people and as friends. It's a neutral experience, because women are usually only attracted to one or perhaps a few guys at a time. Most men will read as neutral to women... but not as losers.

On the other hand, I feel like a sizable number of men have a lack of respect toward women they're not attracted to, then they project that onto women and assume that lack of respect is what lack of interest means. But it's just a projection of their own patterns and tendencies to write off unattractive women and see them as lesser, that comes back to bite them.

[DrewNows]

3 hours ago, Emerald said:

Absolutely correct. Women generally don't have a lack of respect for men they're not attracted to. They just see them as people and as friends. It's a neutral experience, because women are usually only attracted to one or perhaps a few guys at a time. Most men will read as neutral to women... but not as losers

Yes and this would be the same for the majority of men not in scarcity or entitlement 

3 hours ago, Emerald said:

On the other hand, I feel like a sizable number of men have a lack of respect toward women they're not attracted to, then they project that onto women and assume that lack of respect is what lack of interest means. But it's just a projection of their own patterns and tendencies to write off unattractive women and see them as lesser, that comes back to bite them.

I question the accuracy and meaning of this claim

Men who have a lack of respect for woman they deem unattractive will usually be of an entitled nature/attitude/body language but will act super kiss ass and friendly (quite possibly in a needy way) to the woman they find attractive  

But men without self respect/confidence/attractiveness will mirror these aspects with every woman they meet, and the highly attractive girls will scare the bageebers out of them. 

On the other side, a woman who sees herself unattractive reflects this sort of body language and may often get reciprocated attention due to the closedoffness being perceived  

it’s always having to do with oneself if and when things get to the personal level 

 

Edited June 3, 2019 by DrewNows

[billiesimon]

4 hours ago, Emerald said:

That's why I also included romantic intentions in general in the last post. It's not just guys who are looking for sex that do this. It's guys who are looking for relationships too. 

So, make no mistake, it will make her lose respect for you and will make her feel really shitty if she values your friendship. Now, I'm sure this has happened to her before, because it happens to women a lot. And either way, it feels very objectifying to have a guy that you thought cared about you genuinely as a friend, up and leave when he finds out that you don't see him that way. That's what it is to be fuck-zoned.

So, pretending to be her friend in hopes that you can get into a relationship, feels only slightly less objectifying than if you were just pretending to be her friend to get into her pants. If it happened to you in that way, you would know and hate the feeling. But unfortunately, you'll probably never experience it to know how it feels.

 

 

@Emerald I understand and I don't want to completely leave her. I have opened a thread on purpose to avoid causing suffering.

I feel like you have profiled me as a heartless egotistical man, who doesn't care about this woman. 
No, I care about her. That's why I'm here. Because I don't want to make a foolish move that can cause damage or make her feel bad. In fact want to find a solution which is the best for both of us.

Be careful to say that I don't understand her, only because I am in pain and I want to avoid my pain.

Is it my fault that I have romantic feelings for her? I'm here on purpose to self inquire about my possible best choices. And your perspective is very useful to me, of course I don't want to make her suffer, and I see her as a wonderful complex person, not an object. I am a bit offended by these statements. I'm not a cold hearted jerk.