Interesting things said by Jesus....

[abrakamowse]

@Bill W theres a different between faith and belief.

They call it faith but it is not. It's a belief, dogma...

You can see the truth from that set of beliefs but is much harder than real understanding and true faith. IMO.

 

[Bill W]

7 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

@Bill W theres a different between faith and belief.

They call it faith but it is not. It's a belief, dogma...

You can see the truth from that set of beliefs but is much harder than real understanding and true faith. IMO.

 

Yep. But for me faith and belief is the same thing. Also,  one persons dogma is another persons inspiration, guidance and/or comfort...Rightly or wrongly... Who gets to decide what is dogma? 

If I don't have faith in something or believe in something I just move away from it. Take it or leave it kind of thing. I could throw the word dogma at it, or not. 

I feel grateful to live in a society where I can pick and choose my beliefs and faith. Not everyone is so fortunate. 

What's the difference between faith and belief? Genuine question to see if I can benefit from your take on this ?

[abrakamowse]

@Bill W I agree with a lot of things you say Bill. I'm not closed to other beliefs and techniques for liberation. 

Maybe I'm wrong. I learned the difference through an Eckhart Tolle YouTube video. He said the belief comes from the ego, from our ideas and thoughts, from others, from the world and faith is more like a knowing or understanding that it was always in you but you were not aware of it 

Like from your intuition or real self.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by abrakamowse

[Zigzag Idiot]

22 hours ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

In the Gospel of Thomas Jesus said, "Don't worry too much what the outside of the cup looks like, You only drink what's inside."  "Do not let fundamentalists come between you and God's love. They are like dog's guarding a cow's trough. They protect food they don't eat from animals that are starving."

This is a paraphrasing of Logion 102 from the Gospel of Thomas when the Pharisees were the fundamentalists of the day.

In esoteric Christianity, the references about the Pharisees in the parables applies to everyone. We all have an 'inner Pharisee' in ourselves to overcome who are sure of themselves in unknowing blind belief (imagination). This is a part of Awakening, dying to old self and rebirth. A dying to our old selves who are legion (many i's) and trapped in polarity consciousness and interprets the scriptures literally that kill the Word, the Spirit.

Christ pointing to what we refer to as nondual being.

[Shin]

Just get rid of all those cryptic stuff

It's all THERE YOU SILLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bill W]

1 hour ago, abrakamowse said:

@Bill W I agree with a lot of things you say Bill. I'm not closed to other beliefs and techniques for liberation. 

Maybe I'm wrong. I learned the difference through an Eckhart Tolle YouTube video. He said the belief comes from the ego, from our ideas and thoughts, from others, from the world and faith is more like a knowing or understanding that it was always in you but you were not aware of it 

Like from your intuition or real self.

 

 

 @abrakamowse Thanks for this, will watch later. Yeh, with my definition of belief, I know I cast the net wide on that, almost to the point that everything outside of completely verifiable fact is a belief. Verifiable being that more than one person would be able to verify it and agree it. So, for example, everything Leo talks about, for me, is beliefs. He believes this, that, and the other. If someone thinks they are God, for me, it's a belief they have. 

Not you, but I try to be subtle where I can because I've seen on this forum that when you say the word belief others can react like it is an insult calling their view a belief, like you are comparing their view to believing in Santa Claus. For me, belief is not an insult or a degradation. It is also not calling someone a liar. Leo for example, I believe he is very authentic and genuine. 

I don't strive to be ignorant or dumb, but for me, it's vital for my goals to actually remain as much in "not knowing mind" as possible, as for me, staying out of "black" and "white" mode is helpful. I've had a lot of problems with resentment in my life, and staying in "not knowing mind" can stop me forming conclusions that are based on my own agenda and my own beliefs. 

I don't see a lot on this forum really investigating personal bias either. 

I'm thinking out loud here rather than assuming anything about you! 

[Zigzag Idiot]

  @Bill W My harsh criticism above about belief equaling imagination wasn't aimed at you.  What I've always referred to as holding things in an 'as if category', in spirit, aligns closely with your comments on faith and belief.

3 hours ago, Bill W said:

I don't see a lot on this forum really investigating personal bias either.

The topic I started yesterday on one's need to be right in discussions with others hasn't been very popular along with other topics of that nature in the recent past.

It seems just about any honest, unflattering, self observation here on the forum gets met more often with subtle if not blatant condescension and being talked down to and unsolicited advice that often doesn't even apply, in addition to intellectual one-upsmanship, complaining, emoting, pissing contests, platitudes, self congratulatory qualifying remarks and all the rest of it as Maurice Nicoll would say. ? Yes, I'm guilty of all that stuff to at times when I become identified. ??‍♂️

@Shin  Jesus is my brother and friend. Jesus is just alright with meee, Mannnnn

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Zigzag Idiot

[Bill W]

@Zigzag Idiot

1 hour ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

My harsh criticism above about belief equaling imagination wasn't aimed at you.

I can't even find any harsh criticism in your post, let alone anything I could think is linked to me 

[zeroISinfinity]

5 hours ago, Shin said:

Just get rid of all those cryptic stuff

It's all THERE YOU SILLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where? 

I want that damn hippie girl here and I want to meet Jesus in person. 

Heaven is depressing place ?

[seeking_brilliance]

7 hours ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

This is a paraphrasing of Logion 102 from the Gospel of Thomas when the Pharisees were the fundamentalists of the day.

In esoteric Christianity, the references about the Pharisees in the parables applies to everyone. We all have an 'inner Pharisee' in ourselves to overcome who are sure of themselves in unknowing blind belief (imagination). This is a part of Awakening, dying to old self and rebirth. A dying to our old selves who are legion (many i's) and trapped in polarity consciousness and interprets the scriptures literally that kill the Word, the Spirit.

Christ pointing to what we refer to as nondual being.

What is Logian 102? I've heard that mentioned before. 

[Zigzag Idiot]

@seeking_brilliance  From the Gospel of Thomas.

 

lo·gi·on

/ˈlōɡēˌän,-jē-/

noun

a saying attributed to Jesus Christ, especially one not recorded in the canonical Gospels.

[seeking_brilliance]

13 minutes ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

@seeking_brilliance  From the Gospel of Thomas.

 

lo·gi·on

/ˈlōɡēˌän,-jē-/

noun

a saying attributed to Jesus Christ, especially one not recorded in the canonical Gospels.

oohhhhhh..... ok

[seeking_brilliance]

This is commentary from a particular translation of the gospel of Thomas

Now, the day you discover your true light [your Divine Awareness within] your current idea of spirituality will PASS AWAY behind you,
feeling like another life or a dream. Your present belief systems and
old identifications will also pass away behind you.
Your unenlightened ego-persona will no longer dominate, as you’ve removed attention from it ... and your rediscovered one true Self will no longer pass through the sleepy transition of “death”.
You now remember, that once when you practiced good habits ––
when you practiced spiritual disciplines to enter your I AM Self ––
it was you, [the one who believed in separation]
that put forth effort and allowed an unfolding expression of good works.
But when you reenter your Divine Light, and your expansive Awareness, who do you suppose will be the ACTOR then, who will be the DOER, and WHO will be doing the allowing?
Will it be the ego self, feeling separate, and alone –– burdened with
the emptiness of the past...? Or will it be your Divine Beingness acting from the Loving Power of the Present Moment?
In the beginning, when you were one-with “I AM I,” you became “two” by falling “asleep” and you dreamed of a “separation” from your
Divine Identity, believing the God Life Force to be someplace else, other than in you, as your body and soul.
You dreamed that EARTH was separate from HEAVEN, and you focused on the outer world’s shadows and circumstances and dreamed of death rather than knowing the power, present within your being.
But now that you are “two” [in a divided consciousness of half-ness],
how shall you return to The One, The Only, The Whole?
How can you rejoin what you never separated from, or come back again to what you never left?
To awaken from your dream of exile, you must reorient your Awareness of Self, by seeing your flesh as the outside of your breath,
and, unifying your divine impulses with your human actions.
Let your mind be the servant of your SOUL [your pure Intentions] and let loving kindness replace ego’s self-centeredness
[by continuously gazing within].
Listen to and touch the Divine Consciousness in your center of being moment to moment, and obey the guidance that you receive there. Listen.
You marvel at the things I do and the words I say, but marvel not. The works I do and the words I say are from the “I AM I.”
The words I hear the I AM say within, these I say;
and the works I see this Divine One do within, these are what I do. You see, it is only a matter of attention and obedience. 11.
from the Lachlen Paul French translation of The Gospel According to Thomas

[abrakamowse]

On 6/14/2019 at 9:28 AM, Bill W said:

I've had a lot of problems with resentment in my life, and staying in "not knowing mind" can stop me forming conclusions that are based on my own agenda and my own beliefs. 

That's super smart, I am also in a state of "not knowing"... is the wisest thing to do.

 

On 6/14/2019 at 9:28 AM, Bill W said:

I'm thinking out loud here rather than assuming anything about you! 

I know, and I appreciate it. I also try not to assume anything about others.

As Jesus said: "Don’t judge, so that you won’t be judged.  For the way you judge others is how you will be judged — the measure with which you measure out will be used to measure to you."

[seeking_brilliance]

[abrakamowse]

[seeking_brilliance]

1 minute ago, abrakamowse said:

Haha that got zero likes on my Facebook page

[abrakamowse]

@seeking_brilliance hahahaha... Omg... I think people don't laugh about that because they think they will end in Hell Lol

[Aaron p]

John 14:20 "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you."

[Aeris]

On 14/06/2019 at 1:45 PM, abrakamowse said:

@Bill W I agree with a lot of things you say Bill. I'm not closed to other beliefs and techniques for liberation. 

Maybe I'm wrong. I learned the difference through an Eckhart Tolle YouTube video. He said the belief comes from the ego, from our ideas and thoughts, from others, from the world and faith is more like a knowing or understanding that it was always in you but you were not aware of it 

Like from your intuition or real self.

 

 

I find that all intuition come from the ego.

The weak one use others tools than the strong one : needed to sustain itself.

Eckart is a guru and a high mind manipulator aswell. 

Pure high consciousness love would mean : never ask monney

And the bible is blue non sense

Even if some sentences were relevant : in your absolute could be and is probably ; a mind bias.

Just like horoscope.

What does it mean to help ?

When a father slap your face because he think you did wrong It's pure love.

So how do you discern an act of love from one of fear ? Instinct expertise.

No words no sentences no spiritual Book & no teacher in themself can help.

The ultimate is that everything is so contextual than all those mind tools are useless in absolute circonstances.

Not that non dual teaching are useless. But embodiment is not Reading.

Knowing is not 'knowing'

You never know even when you know.

So in reality all teaching and practice should be carved in your soul expérience.

Imagine a World without society and culture.

The only true non dual teaching should be practiced for true embodiment.

So be careful what you know is the sentence itlself' the belief. not the 'all knowing absolute practice'.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Aeris