I don’t understand Pick-up culture and find it disingenuous

[Shadowraix]

@Knock Personally I think personal development can provide the self esteem and confidence boost that pickup can. 

At least that's the case for me lol

But I'm not here to say which path is the best. I'd rather someone go through this and transcend it than be stuck. 

[Arcangelo]

Pick up is personal development.

[Emerald]

The culture is definitely disingenuous because it's largely made up of men (mostly young men) who feel a sense of lack in themselves and they project that getting women's approval will fix that lack. But that sense of lack is internal and cannot be fixed that way.

Now, I think learning some seduction techniques and ways to approach and date and all those things are perfectly fine. It's good to know the lay of the land. But overall, the community surrounding pick up, feels to be a very immature version of masculinity. And as a woman, I find it obvious and off-putting.

And men who get attached to the techniques and culture, don't feel like women will like them for who they are. And they are compensating for those self-esteem issues through the continuous search for female sexual validation. They think they NEED techniques for a woman to be interested in them. And furthermore, they think they NEED a woman to be interested in them to be worth a damn.

Overall, if a guy is between 18 and 25, and he's into pick-up, I suspect he may grow out of it once he's been around the block a few times. A man who grows and matures in the natural way without being stunted will transcend it quite quickly. In fact, experimenting sexually and being a bit promiscuous in the early 20s or so is probably quite normal and healthy and part of the growth process. 

But if a guy is over 25, and has already had more than a couple years of success in dating and sleeping with women, I tend to think he's just using pick-up as a crutch at that point. At that point, it's simply to cover up insecurities, and avoid true intimacy and vulnerability with a partner. And of course, this type of guy really won't be good for women.

Overall though, I see why it exists. It's normal for men to want to be more attractive to women. 

The problem comes with the fact that most men in that culture are also having an internal battle with their own feminine side. And that becomes toxic very quickly. Lots of Anima possession going on in pick-up groups.

[Key Elements]

@Knock

 

[Key Elements]

4 minutes ago, Stenne said:

@Key Elements Hey thanks for the good video's

This is Some good advice !

You're welcome.

[Knock]

1 hour ago, Stenne said:

@Key Elements Hey thanks for the good video's

This is Some good advice !

+1
“We sit with our friends discussing the rules but no one even knows what game we’re trying to play, Because the problem with our generation not wanting relationships is that, at the end of the day, we actually do.”
I appreciate the effort in sharing those videos. They definitely resonated with me.

[Key Elements]

@Knock You're welcome.?

[UDT]

On 6/1/2019 at 2:26 AM, Knock said:

I would like to expect human decency and mutual respect, not selfish games that unwillingly use others as pawns.

Exactly. Unfortunately a the majority of young people are not educated and raised to see reciprocity and humbleness as the foundation ones character.
Then we get a culture of failing and abusing men who think just because they bump into a girl and say hi hottie she will start making him breakfast

19 hours ago, SFRL said:

Getting the girl and the way you do get the girl actually shows her a lot about how you will assert yourself into the world. 

beautiful put. Thats what done right PU is. Its building a young guys character. You decide if you use your knowledge for evil. Thats why you have free will, thats why it is a test for you

 

On 6/1/2019 at 8:41 AM, anthony_sh1 said:

I really think that pickup is manipulative, all of what you do is doing something (or not doing) to get something of the girl without really caring about her, of her agenda, you don't see it like a fucking human being, you don't just be fun, or authentic or unhibited, etc. all about what you care is her pussy. You are going to use all the tricks and strategies you have to get her. 

And what do you do? You play the white knight role and save the girl of your dreams from all the other evil men out there . . . ? See how you play the devil
The girls play games too, more than guys, girls are made for having a lot of sexual partners, read Sex at Dawn .
 

Guys putting girls on a pedestole are as lost as guys writing down how many girls they "approached" last week and what went wrong, like it is age of empires 

 

 

peace

[Jacobsrw]

@Knock completely feel you on this one. I’m not one really for excessive of feminism but I sure think men have created this new fictitious behaviour women must follow. “I must look good for men” “My value is in my body” etc. etc. This is now flooded into the dating sphere in which is polluted with women completely mentally hijacked with the notions males hormones have fed them. 

I shed tears for some of the women close to me, my ex partners and those whom I know. The difficulty it would be for women now days to navigate reality and try substantiate their worth beyond a measure of beauty, its disappointing. My ex partner measured her worth by the remarks she received and social media accolades. I find this extremely disappointing. Both men and women are incredible creatures that have been constructed into a product.

I also fear the sustainability of healthy relationships for the generations to come throughout all this. In western societies it is difficult to to come across individuals who are not identified by the material exterior. My hope is that a inflection point comes where humans have no choice but to turn inward.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Jacobsrw

[RendHeaven]

@Key Elements what do you think of Jay Shetty? His recent videos seem "too basic" in my mind, which is a shame because apparently he has a massive meditation background?

[RawJudah]

What boggles my mind is Leo used to do pickup...

[Key Elements]

12 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

@Key Elements what do you think of Jay Shetty? His recent videos seem "too basic" in my mind, which is a shame because apparently he has a massive meditation background?

I don't really follow him. So, I'm not sure which is the video you're talking about. His videos are short and to the point. But, it has profound meanings. If a person doesn't have life experiences or worked on himself or herself enough, he/she might just pass it off as fluff or "in fantasy land."

Yes, he has a meditation background. He was a Buddhist monk.

[Key Elements]

16 hours ago, Knock said:

It is the adoption of this mask of masculinity that makes it disingenuous. The overemphasis on adopting this masculine persona, regardless of ones personal make-up, hides ones true character behind the guise of strategies and tactics. 

Yes, correct. I like how you use the word "mask" and "hides one's true character." I'm sitting in my dinning room. I'm looking at the trail mix in front of me in a ziplock bag on the table. On it is a label of "Cranberry Health Mix." It's a mixture of different nuts and cranberries. Ok, that's fine. There's nothing unusual about that. Now, my question is, why does PUA do the same thing for ppl? They describe what is an "alpha male" and expect males to behave that way. Otherwise, he's a "chode" or a "white knight." Human beings are not food or products. We don't work that way. We're naturally unique, complicated, and with different personalities. Why should we be labeled like that and expect to behave just like that? We're not factory made food or products. This is very delusional. It's just as bad as racism. The hate in racism is of different degrees and delusion. Someone comes up to you and asks you, "Are you ______?" (Fill in the blank with a race. The blank doesn't have to be race; it could be something else: eg. hv gf, married, gay, etc.) If they don't like your answer, they make a rude/hateful comment, as if they know you, or they have a weird reaction because that's not the answer they expect. This is true for both males and females. Lots of labels and blaming the other person. Also, the other person, who is a complete stranger, doesn't have to answer your questions.

[flowboy]

On 31-5-2019 at 11:13 PM, Knock said:

My girlfriend was telling me about her experiences going out clubbing to dance, which is all about letting loose and away from the demands of the world. But, it seems like dancing has been hijacked by PUA culture (or maybe it’s always been there). She can’t go out and dance without getting approached by half a dozen guys or so, and no, she isn’t dressing slutty or giving any indications. She was telling me how there were times that she was in a trance-like state just melting into the music, only to be purposely bumped into, approached or disrupted by some guy wanting her attention.

@Knock If she really didn't want to be approached, she'd invite her girl friends to drink and dance to music at home. Really think that through. If she truly didn't want the attention of guys, she could party at home. Or at a gay club.

Both sexes are there because on some level they enjoy the game.

Not everyone (your girlfriend, for example) may be there to be picked up for real, but certainly they are there because they enjoy the game and like the attention.

But, you'll say, why would she complain about it then? You're not making sense!

That's the problem with a masculine mindset. From your masculine, if you run into something unpleasant, you avoid it next time.

From the feminine however, it's all part of the movie! Good and bad aspects of her experience are all interesting and make her feel alive. Just like a good movie has some negative in it.

Sure there's rude groping guys with no manners, I'm not saying she likes that. That's the bad that comes with the good.

She's complaining to you about getting attention from guys in this way, because:

1. She enjoys talking about her experiences, both bad and good. It has nothing to do with problems that have to be solved
2. She LOVES that she IS getting attention from guys, but complaining is the only way she can share with you, because she knows your ego couldn't handle it if she went: "Lots of guys found me attractive and hit on me, it made me feel wanted and sexy, it was really cool!"
   So she's trying to share her experience with you in a way that won't freak you out.
   Women are generally really good at detecting what someone's fragile ego can handle and what it can't, and adapting their story to that. And this is a good and necessary thing. Guys can't handle the truth and boy do they get dangerous when their ego freaks out.

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by flowboy

[anthony_sh1]

17 hours ago, UDT said:

Exactly. Unfortunately a the majority of young people are not educated and raised to see reciprocity and humbleness as the foundation ones character.
Then we get a culture of failing and abusing men who think just because they bump into a girl and say hi hottie she will start making him breakfast

beautiful put. Thats what done right PU is. Its building a young guys character. You decide if you use your knowledge for evil. Thats why you have free will, thats why it is a test for you

 

And what do you do? You play the white knight role and save the girl of your dreams from all the other evil men out there . . . ? See how you play the devil
The girls play games too, more than guys, girls are made for having a lot of sexual partners, read Sex at Dawn .
 

Guys putting girls on a pedestole are as lost as guys writing down how many girls they "approached" last week and what went wrong, like it is age of empires 

 

 

peace

That makes no sense man, if I say that pickup is manipulative that means that I am a white knight?, I didn't say that nobody has to do it, read again my comment and try to understand it, if you want to do it, do it man, but, apart from that, if women play tricks on you, it's a justification for you to do it? It's just a stupid justification man

Edited June 3, 2019 by anthony_sh1

[anthony_sh1]

On 1/6/2019 at 4:43 AM, Arcangelo said:

Girls are deceitful, have a bag of tricks and strategies of their own too. No one is a saint you know...

 

What am saying is that be conscious when you are manipulating women, and how your actions affect her or affect yourself. I don't think that manipulating, being deceitful, lying to each other, is going to create something good. What I am trying to do is be conscious in my interactions, and  trying to reduce as much as manipulation, deceitful, and tricks as I can, because I know that it's not good for me, is not good for her.

[Key Elements]

@Knock just wanted to add...

If you and your gf don't like that kind of party environment, don't go. Find another place of your interest--a better environment. Why go to such a place where you both can't even be yourselves?

[Knock]

14 hours ago, flowboy said:

Both sexes are there because on some level they enjoy the game.

Not everyone (your girlfriend, for example) may be there to be picked up for real, but certainly they are there because they enjoy the game and like the attention.

 

3 hours ago, Key Elements said:

@Knock just wanted to add...

If you and your gf don't like that kind of party environment, don't go. 

@Key Elements @flowboy I go out to clubs because I love the music and atmosphere. It is not true (for me at least) that I am there for the attention, or wanting to be involved in any game. I think it is the unfortunate fact for music lovers (of EDM) that pick-up is infused with clubbing. Acknowledging that is the case, I am seeking to understand pick-up culture more with these posts.

[flowboy]

13 minutes ago, Knock said:

I am seeking to understand pick-up culture more with these posts.

And what's your progress on that so far?

 

I ask because you seem to have not emptied your cup.

Edited June 3, 2019 by flowboy

[whoareyou]

@Knock You are missing the point of what "Pick Up" actually is.

Pick up is a tool and it is up to you, how you would apply that tool. You can use that tool consciously and unconsciously, for egoic purposes for which you described. A lot of people are unconscious, this is why you see a lot of the things that you mentioned.

Inherently there is nothing wrong with Pick Up. There are also different pickup schools out there, and they are certainly different.