I don’t understand Pick-up culture and find it disingenuous

[SFRL]

53 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

@Knock This is probably one of my favorite clips:

If you look closely, it relates to the other clips that I posted. What mainstream society don't understand is that whatever you do in a relationship, it will always end up in the same place. What does that mean? If you're in a long term relationship, and it lasts a lifetime, what happens is, it will end up just like the relationship that you're having with your mom, dad, or siblings (except, it's intimate. That's the only main difference). If you add anything else to it, for example, if you're needy in any way, it will just add stress to the relationship. It's really that simple. But, mainstream makes it complicated--too complicated.

Most Players, the sensitive people that we are, understand this at least at an intuitive level. That's why we refer to ourselves as "Daddy". 

I think we deserve more credit. 

[Key Elements]

57 minutes ago, SFRL said:

Most Players, the sensitive people that we are, understand this at least at an intuitive level. That's why we refer to ourselves as "Daddy". 

I think we deserve more credit. 

What credit? Let's not put any groups up on a pedestal. We're looking for truth in relationships--how it actually works.

Notice that all the four clips I posted on this thread tell the truth and mean the same thing. They are from different people and sources. Yet, they all point to the same thing.

[SFRL]

1 hour ago, Stenne said:

@SFRL yes buth the question is Can you realy be yourself in the relationship? A "good" intellegent woman will not stay whit A Guy who wheres A mask all the time

Yeah it's not either this or that though. It's not black or white. The idea that a guy who picks up a girl wears a mask all the time is just a storyline invented to downplay a PUA. 

PUA like all people can adapt and chance. 

The first 3-5 dates the dynamic is very different then the relationship will be at the 3 months mark, or the 6 months mark, or the one year mark, or 3 or 10 year mark. 

It's not a static environment. 

Sure we all want that deep emotional connection with somebody. But to pretend that you got to have that deep connection when you just meet the girl is just very shallow to me. So don't even pretend. That stuff takes time and work and shared experiences. 

 

[SFRL]

2 hours ago, Key Elements said:

What credit? Let's not put any groups up on a pedestal. We're looking for truth in relationships--how it actually works.

Notice that all the four clips I posted on this thread tell the truth and mean the same thing. They are from different people and sources. Yet, they all point to the same thing.

Yeah you collected four clips that say all the same. I can collect ten clips that will all say the same thing, but the exact opposite, so that then automatically makes it the truth? Or more truth, because I got ten clips right? 

On the point of "how things actually work". Well that's the matter of perspective. You like to talk about how things actually work when you are in a very long term relationship, married etc. 

But that's not the same thing as a young person, or a young guy exploring his possibilities with women. You are talking like this old grandma completely disconnected from the realities of a young guy entering the dating scene. Your advice might be great for a 40 year old woman. Not for a guy in his twenties. 

 

 

 

[Key Elements]

49 minutes ago, SFRL said:

 

But that's not the same thing as a young person, or a young guy exploring his possibilities with women. You are talking like this old grandma completely disconnected from the realities of a young guy entering the dating scene. Your advice might be great for a 40 year old woman. Not for a guy in his twenties. 

 

 

 

Oh, and you think you're young? You actually think I'm old. I never mentioned my age. You did. I think the first step for you is to stop judging ppl.

I see nothing wrong with the clips I posted. There are young ppl in those clips. If you only believe in casual relationships, that's your choice. A lot of ppl don't want to waste their time and life on that.

[SFRL]

2 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Oh, and you think you're young? You actually think I'm old. I never mentioned my age. You did. I think the first step for you is to stop judging ppl.

I see nothing wrong with the clips I posted. There are young ppl in those clips. If you only believe in casual relationships, that's your choice. A lot of ppl don't want to waste their time and life on that.

Some people age better then others. 

Just because a guy does pickup now does not mean he will never settle down. What's so hard to understand about that? 

 

[Key Elements]

3 hours ago, SFRL said:

 

Just because a guy does pickup now does not mean he will never settle down. What's so hard to understand about that? 

 

I said it's your choice. Who in here doesn't understand that? Judgmental. The casual stuff are the easiest to understand. It's shallow and delusional. There's no truth in it. It's temporary. It's like going to a stage blue church and giving tons of your hard earned money just to learn dogma; except this is stage orange. They are teaching 101+ ways to "hit on 'hot' gals," wording it differently in their products, just for your entertainment so they could make money. ?? They prey on your desperate, sexual urges and emotions, just like McDonald's and other fast foods prey on your health. They make money off you for selling their crap.

[Knock]

An interesting observation I may point out, is it seems like most of the pro-PUA responses in this thread are heavily weighted in masculine love. 

Could it be that the PUA community overstates masculinity and disowns one's femininity by mischaracterizing it as beta?

I can definitely see this working in the short term, such as hook-ups, as attraction is based largely on that polarity. 

However it is evident this doesn't translate well into compassion, non-judgement and humility, which are essential for well-rounded development and growth. 

Again not trying to be critical here, just trying to understand this area and it's implications. Please correct me where I am wrong

[Key Elements]

@Knock yes, you're right. The other major difference is, there is no Truth in it. Yes, I'm talking about the Truth with a capital T. I explained it here. Where do you think the term, "falling in love" came from? There is a profound meaning to it--the deepest meaning. It's timeless, eternal.

[SFRL]

22 minutes ago, Knock said:

An interesting observation I may point out, is it seems like most of the pro-PUA responses in this thread are heavily weighted in masculine love. 

Could it be that the PUA community overstates masculinity and disowns one's femininity by mischaracterizing it as beta?

I can definitely see this working in the short term, such as hook-ups, as attraction is based largely on that polarity. 

However it is evident this doesn't translate well into compassion, non-judgement and humility, which are essential for well-rounded development and growth. 

Again not trying to be critical here, just trying to understand this area and it's implications. Please correct me where I am wrong

People can get stuck playing video games, they can get stuck smoking weed, they can get stuck watching sports, they can get stuck doing pick-up. Of course you should not do that. 

But at a certain time pickup can be the right tool for the job at hand. 

Most people/guys have been there. You want to improve with the opposite sex. Starting from scratch. Once you get that momentum going you got to shift gears and move on to bigger better things. 

My problem is with people who start shitting on guys who are trying to build themselves up. The guys starting out. We all got to start somewhere. Shoe some support. Build them up. 

You did pick-up yourself right? Still on the path to improve with girls. Where would you have been if you had not started your pick up journey? Probably still at square one. 

I don't really agree with this notion that once a guy has left pick up behind now he needs to 'repent his sins' and condemn pick up. That he has seem the light now and found God or something. 

It kind of goes with these New Age circles. It's kind of like a leftish religion. With a lot of dogma on what to do and not to do when it comes to dating. 

It's basically the foundation from which spirituality grew into religions like Christianity and Islam with their dogma on sex and relationships. 

Same thing just a bit of a different vibe.

 

[Key Elements]

@Knock I have to add that what I just said has nothing to do with grouping ppl or things into any categories. If you want the truth to anything, don't categorize in a black and white way, or in distinct categories. Otherwise, it creates bias. Think many times before you judge.

[SFRL]

10 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

@Knock I have to add that what I just said has nothing to do with grouping ppl or things into any categories. If you want the truth to anything, don't categorize in a black and white way, or in distinct categories. Otherwise, it creates bias. Think many times before you judge.

When the Sun rises in the West beer will taste like Coca-Cola and squirrels will go hunting for meat. Let me add that a Ford Mustang will make a great electric car and Chinese people love to wear their traditional attire from their home country in Africa. 

[Key Elements]

5 minutes ago, SFRL said:

When the Sun rises in the West beer will taste like Coca-Cola and squirrels will go hunting for meat. Let me add that a Ford Mustang will make a great electric car and Chinese people love to wear their traditional attire from their home country in Africa. 

I'm not going to talk rubbish like this. You need to go out and travel the world, and not stay sheltered in your own backyard. You're almost 40. At least another forum member is doing this, travelling and attempting to understand another part of the world different from his own backyard (country). He has a long way to go, but I applaud his efforts.

[SFRL]

2 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

I'm not going to talk rubbish like this. You need to go out and travel the world, and not stay sheltered in your own backyard. You're almost 40. At least another forum member is doing this, travelling and attempting to understand another part of the world different from his own backyard (country). He has a long way to go, but I applaud his efforts.

I need to travel the world? ? NOW THATS AN ASSUMPTION!! Lol. 

[Key Elements]

4 minutes ago, SFRL said:

I need to travel the world? ? NOW THATS AN ASSUMPTION!! Lol. 

I don't see you sharing anything else other than how to have casual sex for males. You're always here in this section of the forum the majority of the times talking about that. You're not well-rounded. And, when you go travelling, it doesn't mean that you just stay in your hotel room the whole time, isolated and not attempt to understand anything.

[SFRL]

6 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

I don't see you sharing anything else other than how to have casual sex for males. You're always here in this section of the forum the majority of the times talking about that. You're not well-rounded. And, when you go travelling, it doesn't mean that you just stay in your hotel room the whole time, isolated and not attempt to understand anything.

Nah I got a lot of time to explore, my life is pretty cool. I travel a lot making good money doing it. I am from Europe living in the USA. My girlfriend is from Africa. My daughter is mixed. If anything I should be traveling less. 

I would love to talk about steady relationships and children and stuff. But who here on the forum does that? No one. Please someone?

So I rather be the guy helping some young guys out then the guy telling them they should not be playing victim, but hey!! don't be doing any pick up either. 

[Key Elements]

@SFRL showing is better than telling. There is a saying, "Talk is cheap." Ppl have shared information in this forum that is valuable. Priceless info. It's just that when a person is not well-rounded enough, he/she will miss that information and dismiss it as useless. Very few ppl will look for the needle in the haystack.

[SFRL]

14 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

@SFRL showing is better than telling. There is a saying, "Talk is cheap." Ppl have shared information in this forum that is valuable. Priceless info. It's just that when a person is not well-rounded enough, he/she will miss that information and dismiss it as useless. Very few ppl will look for the needle in the haystack.

I congratulate you on looking in the mirror. 

[Key Elements]

3 minutes ago, SFRL said:

I congratulate you on looking in the mirror. 

I was never talking about myself. 

[Knock]

4 hours ago, Key Elements said:

 They prey on your desperate, sexual urges and emotions, just like McDonald's and other fast foods prey on your health. 

This is what prompted me to start this thread, as I saw pick up culture as disingenuous, in that it may provide short term sustenance, but lacking in long term nourishment. Why give a starving child a mentos when you can give them an apple?

It is the adoption of this mask of masculinity that makes it disingenuous. The overemphasis on adopting this masculine persona, regardless of ones personal make-up, hides ones true character behind the guise of strategies and tactics. It lacks true authenticity and vulnerability. Like @Identity said in the other thread;

"At this point I also started to get in touch with my feelings more. Seeing how I was suppressing feelings of fear and insecurity, especially about sexuality."

"I was in this transition period, I let go of a lot of the inauthenticity and manipulation, more in touch with my feelings and desires, but lacking the self-esteem, self-love, self-acceptance and all this to be naturally more attractive."

We must be careful however not to create a shadow here. Be careful not to be judgemental, but instead to have compassion. Be understanding of how these guys are just looking for love and self-worth in the wrong areas. Once they mature and drop the crutch and the mask, they will come to understand.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Knock
Added self worth