Who here lives on trading stocks?

[Shaun]

I am currently working in a job which I hate, to put it lightly. I have substantial savings though and was wondering what the best trading platform is and who here lives completely on the stock market?

I really want out of wage slavery because a life of that is not worth living.

[ZZZZ]

Most that are living off stocks are doing so through dividends and buying the market (ie investing, not trading). Not very many people are successful trading (or "day trading"). By not many, I mean somewhere in the range of 80-90% or more. I can't remember where I originally saw this, but you can find the data online. A high majority of the time you are better off just buying something like a DOW or SPY ETF and sitting on it.

 

You can also write options to generate income, or use options to buy companies you are confident in. That way, if you lose out on exercising your contract, you at least own a company you want to invest in long term. I don't remember the terms for these specific strategies.

 

Just my 2 cents. I would consider an agressive 5-10 year investment plan while you study technical and fundamental analysis of stocks, build a portfolio slowly, and generate enough assets to start living off of the dividends and profit.

 

This will definitely require six figures. Look into Roth IRA contributions. Take a look at your 401K and start playing with it CAREFULLY, once you feel like you have a good feel for the market. Many people paper trade for years before they touch their real money, and rightfully so. See how you do here: https://www.investopedia.com/simulator/ It gives you delayed stock data so you can see how you would have done on the real market. 

 

 

[Knock]

I would advise against trading stocks. Ultimately it is a losing game, with the odds against you due to transaction costs/brokerage. Also, you are against professional traders whose whole job is to trade, some whom may have insider information. Think of it like roulette, you may win some, you may lose some, but eventually you will be on the wrong side on probability. You will net higher profits by going into diversified index funds with low admin costs and letting it sit accumulating small but steady income.

I would advise against options, they cost a tonne and are not for the day-trader.

[7thLetter]

I can give a bit of my opinion on trading the Forex market. Been on and off learning about the Forex market and how to trade it with Technical Analysis for 3 years. Different from stocks but some similarities.

Just like any market, the Forex market is often manipulated by the big banks. People with large sums of money are the ones who move the market, that’s basically how it works. If the majority of people expect the market to move upwards, the bigger players will move the market in the opposite direction. That way they can make money off the bullish investors. Although this doesn’t happen 100% of the time, sometimes they will give the players a chance to win so they keep coming back.

With all of this being said though, that doesn’t mean there’s no way to make money in the market. If you take the time to understand what’s actually going on, take the time to prepare yourself psychologically, and to learn how to trade, you should be fine. And you can even learn to trade with the bigger players. They’re either bullish, bearish, or not in the market at all.

In the FX market, its the most popular currency pairs that are often manipulated. If you trade the less popular pairs, there will be less market manipulation.

Those are my thoughts, I’m pretty sure a lot of it is applicable to the stock market too.

[Shaun]

Thanks, I am going to speak to a financial advisor about making some investments and maybe go to a life coach too. I will no longer accept wage slavery as a life of that is not worth living.

[Norbert Lennartz]

@Shaun No. What are they supposed to say, except selfish nonsense.? Just invest in a few blue chips that you can understand personally. And then you just keep them. That is the safest way. Also in silver.

[Knock]

@Shaun Just a word of caution.

Most financial planners are not worth their fees. They will try and up-sell you for other services, especially insurance and retirement fund management (called superannuation here in Australia). 

I wouldn't recommend going to one, but if you do, make sure they are an independent adviser. Those that are part of banks will only sell their own products, which may not be the best fit for you (nor the best price).

Any adviser that talks about 'active asset management' thinking they can beat the market is either deluded or dishonest. Passive & diversified management may sound boring and 'unsexy', but its most likely to lead you to the highest growth over a long term horizon. 

What kind of investments do you have in mind Shaun? What are are you expecting, and why?

[CreamCat]

On 6/1/2019 at 4:28 PM, Knock said:

You will net higher profits by going into diversified index funds with low admin costs and letting it sit accumulating small but steady income.

I read Warren Buffet recommended index funds for most people.

• Invest safely.
• Let compounded interest work in your favor.
  • Re-investing a part of your return on investment leads to compounded interest, too.
• Work on your life purpose so that you love working.

If you want to take risks in your career, don't take unnecessary risks in investments.

Edited June 4, 2019 by CreamCat

[Norbert Lennartz]

Put all the eggs in one basket, and watch the basket carefully.

[Shaun]

12 hours ago, Knock said:

@Shaun Just a word of caution.

Most financial planners are not worth their fees. They will try and up-sell you for other services, especially insurance and retirement fund management (called superannuation here in Australia). 

I wouldn't recommend going to one, but if you do, make sure they are an independent adviser. Those that are part of banks will only sell their own products, which may not be the best fit for you (nor the best price).

Any adviser that talks about 'active asset management' thinking they can beat the market is either deluded or dishonest. Passive & diversified management may sound boring and 'unsexy', but its most likely to lead you to the highest growth over a long term horizon. 

What kind of investments do you have in mind Shaun? What are are you expecting, and why?

I actually don't have anything particular in mind and that's why I want to go to a financial advisor but I was thinking maybe becoming a private landlord. I want to make enough income so that I can leave Amazon because the place is a breeding ground for serious mental health issues.

If I can not find a job I enjoy or a way to escape wage slavery then I will just stop working completely and live with my dad who is on unemployment benefits.

[Commodent]

When investing I follow these principles:

1. Find a project that you truly believe in, and invest in that for long term (several years). Do some research. Where is there being done lots of development?
2. Understand the sentiment. Is the hype excessive? Sell. Deficient? Buy.

This served me well during the crypto bubble. While I really do believe that Ethereum has great potential in the long term, the hype in 2017/18 was just way excessive so I sold off around its peak. I had planned to not sell no matter what, but the excessive hype was just so, so obvious. And guess what, it popped. And now people are feeling defeated so I'm buying in again, because I believe in the project.

[Pilgrim]

On 6.6.2019 at 1:31 AM, Commodent said:

Ethereum has great potential in the long term

I am not an expert in this, do you mind explaining why you see so much potential in Ethereum in the long run? Thank you so much! I have some money aside, but I am a bit risk-averse.. but if I want financial independence over time, I need to get more comfortable with taking risks 

 

On 31.5.2019 at 4:11 PM, Shaun said:

I really want out of wage slavery because a life of that is not worth living

I totally feel you. I also think there has to be "more".. but I don't want to live outside of society either. In my personal opinion if you have enough money on the side, I would invest in real estate in some country/area that is booming for vacation and rent it out via Airbnb 

[Commodent]

@Pilgrim It's basically a programmable blockchain, in contrast to Bitcoin which is just a store of value. Lots of projects are being built on top of Ethereum and the developer community is very active overall. That's a good principle in general; follow the developers, they are creating the solutions of tomorrow. The Ethereum Entereprise Alliance has over 250 members; Microsoft, Intel, Santander, J.P. Morgan to name a few (see full list here). Here's also a list of some use cases.

Having said that, never invest more than you can afford to lose, that is rule number one. While I do strongly believe in Ethereum, the technology is still in its infancy so a better technology could potentially come and overthrow it. If you do invest, let it stay there for several years and sell when you feel the technology has reached its full potential. And don't worry too much about price fluctuations. I have experienced the value of my holdings shrinking with several thousand dollars in a single day, but I'm in it for the long game so it doesn't really affect me. If you're too attached to your money you'll get scared and sell at exactly the wrong moments. Crypto is super volatile, so you gotta keep your cool and stay committed to your long term goal (unless the hype is way, way over the top, that could be a good time to sell some). It has definitely helped on my risk-aversion, that's for sure.

This subreddit is also a good resource for information (don't let the banner scare you away lol).

[Leo Gura]

Trading stocks is a bad idea overall because you are not actually generating any value for the world. So the likelihood of failure is enormous.

Make yourself valuable. Become a massive value provider if you wish to break free of wage slavery.

[Michael569]

@Leo Gura I think most people who do stock trading don't give shit about helping society or contributing to the world in any way whatsoever. It's all about "me me me me me me". I tried bringing up the topic of "contribution" to bunch of Orange colleagues..was called a naive hippie and treehugger  a lesson learned. 

[Norbert Lennartz]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Trading stocks is a bad idea overall because you are not actually generating any value for the world.

If there is no trade at all, how do you know the value of things to the world?
Trade is important to estimate risks and to direct goods and investments to where they are needed.
Simple economy.

[ajasatya]

2 minutes ago, Norbert Lennartz said:

If there is no trade at all, how do you know the value of things to the world?
Trade is important to estimate risks and to direct goods and investments to where they are needed.
Simple economy.

He was talking about trading stocks specifically. And I agree with him.

I'm currently working on a AI system to buy and sell stocks and I'm aware of the fact that I'm not generating any value. It feels like I'm just draining money from other people because when someone wins, others lose. There's 0 value added to the world except for what I intend to do with the money, which may differ from most people since I'm not buying junk food, alcohol & other shitty drugs. My final goal is to use it for philanthropy.

[Norbert Lennartz]

@ajasatya

What is going on in the world is massively affected by currencies and trade interventions. Probably the vast majority of securities trading is senseless trafficking and corrupt trickery caused by the intervention. But that does not refute what I said.

[Jkris]

@Shaun Dear Shaun.The wage slavery you hate now actually could be a blessing in disguise.

The question is you hate the job what you are doing or you hate authority or hierarchy to which you are reporting.

It is difficult to do business - since it requires knowledge capital handling workers marketing and lot more.If you ask people involved in business most would say it is better to be in a job than doesn't mean that people aren't making money in business but the success depends on lot of factors and involve risk.

Comming to trading - be it day trading or swing trading (short term holding) or long term trading --- trading here all I refer to derivatives( Futures and options).

Trading is a ongoing global scam of looting the gullible retail parcipation by the institutions (Big banks,Mutual Fund,Market makers,brokers and GOVT) using power algos and professionals.The retail participants money is systematically swindled slowly.Thats the nature of the markets.

It takes lot of patience,discipline to develop a proper process,system (Not mechanical trading system) - There isn't any -  you have to develop a discretionary trading system based on rules and follow or a hybrid of discretion plus mechanical.

Or 

Options selling - writings do give an edge over buying.

Is it really worth ? - You won't have peace of mind always under constant guessing and anxiety ?

Better not to go for trading.

Again this value investing Warren buffet blah blah are outdated doesn't work any more.

Either start a safe business if you hate authority or change your job if you don't like your job.

Think and take a wise decision and take have others opinion as well before coming to conclusion.

Please don't believe in the so called Technical analysts,snake oil trading system sellers words of Financial Independence -  Freedom by trading - it's all a big scam to loot innocent people.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2019 by Jkris
Added

[Leo Gura]

On 6/14/2019 at 2:07 AM, Michael569 said:

I think most people who do stock trading don't give shit about helping society or contributing to the world in any way whatsoever.

Well of course, LOL. Stock traders are not wise human beings otherwise they would realize how silly their activity is and not waste their life energy on such things.