Can thoughts be signs?

[kieranperez]

@ValiantSalvatore

I think I spotted my miscommunication.

I’ve found in my own practice that I can’t even really create those positive feeling states effectively because I have that much stress, anxiety, fear, tension, etc. in my body. 

When I try to practice self love and create a feeling of love, what I get is love with a deep twist of loss, guilt, sadness, shame, fear, unworthiness, etc. Same goes with certain principles with the Law of Attraction I imagine. If the feeling states, beliefs, etc. you’re trying to program are so deeply rooted in fear for example, you’re still projecting out and attracting fear and you’re still going to feel so incongruent. It’s becomes counterproductive. 

Its like with people who are so heavily traumatized who can’t meditate for long periods of time. People around may tell them to create feeling (or worse - “stop doing it!” - as though it’s that simple for that kind of person) and feel, but what’s often not understand is that they literally can’t. Or in my case, I can’t without “tainting it”.’

The Kriyas and what not Shinzen speaks of in that video (I’ve seen it before) is really something I found in my own personal experience I can’t really get to the point where I can sit with it. I found for me that that general approach would most effective once I’ve worked through and freed myself up from a lot of the very “extremely muddy” trauamas, samskaras, karma, etc. Kinda like a car wash. What Shinzen is talking about, I found for me would be the equivalent of the work that’s done in a car wash after getting the main primary gunk and mud off the car by really doing a thorough rinse and basic wash down. 

Hatha Yoga for examples has what’s called Shatkarmas and more basic pranayamas, bandhas, and of course the mobility side to it. Shatkarmas and pranayamas for example really focus on dealing with samskaras, certain karmas, and vasanas directly. And also helps with creating a lifestyle that would help support my own consciousness work down the road. Not to mention certain practices that can really aid in breaking out of my ADHD.

[Nahm]

On 5/30/2019 at 5:39 AM, chudders said:

(First time posting in the forum, hope this topic is allowed(?))

Welcome! 

I've been dealing with neurotic and repetitive thoughts based on trauma and built up suppression for many years and finally after having started self actualization was I able to realize that, but

Great! Stay with the sensations to release. This will quiet your mind considerably. 

 

Quote

what often happens is I get a repetitive thought related to the trauma but my mind will try to tell me the recurring thought is a sign that what I'm worrying about is going to come true. After doing more work I realize thoughts are projections and symbols, not what they project. And I think ego has a big role to play in this worry. Spent a majority of the day thinking of ways ego could have created this superstition associated with the repetitive thought and I came to the conclusion it could be the ego saying its a sign because if its *not* a sign then accepting responsibility for having such a grim thought repeating in my head is dangerous and unacceptable to my self agenda. That makes the most sense but part of me still feels worried if the neurotic thought is a sign in disguise trying to warn me, even though its been an ongoing thought for almost a decade. So my question is, can thoughts be signs or is this all a neurotic illusion?

This is you creating. Give it a quick read, and decide if its being created from repetitions of the mind in avoidance of self. If so, stop creating it. Instead, accept the sensation, without a word, in silence, alone. 

Become distinctly aware of what you can point to, and what is a thought. This Truth will set you free. 

You can not point to the past, nor future, nor the self. 

You can point though. 

And you can point yourself in the direction you desire, without fear, without thinking. The power of Love is a curious thing. 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@kieranperez

9 hours ago, kieranperez said:

@ValiantSalvatore I mention yoga because yoga has very direct practices for purifying and opening up the body. I know the technique you bring up. Those kinda of practices are extremely hard for me because conjuring up those feeling states are always intertwined with deep guilt, loss, shame, fear, anxiety, etc. I’m very shut off from that sort of stuff if I don’t address the trauma I have in my body. Meditation right now for me is almost impossible because of how much unconscious tension I have in my chest and throat to the point where breathing is difficult. Whenever I can get a breakthrough in energetic/psychic releases like through Shamanic breathing or a great breakthrough on psychedelics it’s a totally different story. 

Yoga is a much more holistic system I comparison to any traditional spiritual practice I’ve yet to come across. 

I get too easily lost with Shinzens practices in the different modalities. Which is hard because Im very conceptual and I like nuanced stuff but in practice it’s a distraction for me 

I am sure I get what is meant with projecting even on a physical level and energetic / attraction level. 

For instance when I feel into this pain in the solar plexus or breath I instantly get goose bumps over my whole body. Sometimes events occure where I think, jup that was definitely the old me attracting that stuff. (on whatever level) 

Yes for me it is the same it felt very difficult to create these feelings and they still do, the easiest thing I found is excitment that is even an advicr given in a course about learning. To reinterpret fear as excitment, kinda let's you feel like a compeptitve psychopath or rather a crazy creative student during exams. 

Still, this is what I just noticed now I also did on the cushion. So, dunno if that "insight" could bear any fruits. 

So, yes the feeling is tainted/touched/sullied by these samskaras constantly, they influence thinking, feeling and behaviour that is somewhat fk'd part about it. 

My release was ultra spontaneous, even LSD did not make me feel this spot so intensly, even when I also cried during an LSD experience heavily.

I heard a sound during the retreat snap there it goes. Happend two times out of my own incapability (this was the thought behind it) of taking care of my mother properly and most likely the "imprinted" madness of it all that runs as a script inside my skull, often. At least these were my thoughts. 

Considering yoga thanks for the information! I have not looked deeply into it, yet I assumed that it goes deeper, since they use chakras as their system. Hope this will be fun. Especially the yoga life style and feelings inside th body.

Also, yes I talk a lot about Shinzen. He mentions that feelings is the biggest unconsciousness factor, from these three things. Sound, image, feeling. 

So, I was triggered by sound. Not sure what happens by image or feeling. Sound is the "shallowest" then image then feel in consideration of their unconscious depth. 

I hope my text is readable or cohesive enough. CBT definitely helps with limiting beliefs and attracting/being triggered by these circumstance. For instance feeling unworthy or questioning my "loveabillity" or my tendency to blame and taking on responsibility. All of this changed I can understand that you want to skip this part, I would not dismiss it, and work directly on a deeper and more profound lvl on it. 

I can tell after the release I am less triggered about stuff that is about my persona/ego-self or simply me. 

Also, shadow work helps me not to project onto others very much, people love to do this with me for what ever reason. (i could come up with a few), somehow I am less aware of these subtle projections, and definitely less affected. Most likely people stop projecting potentially since I am actually embodying the behaviour denied. Or I am just less triggered. 

I stayed with some basic self-help stuff since this is what I could utilize with the ressources presented here. Some of this stuff is quite insane that it is free. When I see a psychotherapist would offer it and used it in the past

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[Spiritual_Seeker]

Thoughts are absolutely signs that change is needed or that you need to address something. Our minds and bodies are linked. To me, it's no different than having a dream. Dreams are often our brains warning us of something or letting us know that we need to make changes, even if the dreams themselves can be weird. When something is on your mind, whether it's positive or negative, it's your mind and body trying to tell you something important. Our thoughts shape us and how we see the world. 

Try giving this a read. It's no substitute for an in-person professional or plan specifically for you, but it's a decent start: https://newfieldnetwork.com/life-lens-joy/