Thoughts on Blog Post About Unconditional Love

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, DJ said:

My thought on the subject is that unconditional love is a concept made up by the mind. Just like the concept of enlightenment.

Hahaha......

[kieranperez]

@kag101 I want to elaborate on few things you seem to be missing:

• As far as that Benthino guy: You have to separate realization from embodiment and also ego development. It’s very common for people who have genuine deep enlightenments of which the realization “sticks” to actually get “worse” as a person because they deepen repressed unconscious shadow material. He seems to be a guy that seems to have genuine experiential understanding of enlightenment, yet very partial. Realizing Love is very different than embodying Love. Which leads me to the next point...
• I personally very much understand the side of being frustrated by people who talk a big Nonduality game (including myself) yet, not only don’t walk their talk, but haven’t even genuinely experienced what they’re talking about to begin with. So when people talk about how everything is all Love, and it is, yet they themselves haven’t realized in their direct experienced as a result of their own deliberate practice, it is hypocritical. So of course, I imagine that’s what you’re probsbly calling out (which I tend to have a bit of a reputation for on the forum here). Having said that though... the truth of the matter is that in the end is that everything that ever occurs ever happens because of God’s Love. However Love as we’re talking about here is not a human emotional love so that Love which is unconditional does not discriminate as to what we as egos would normally make distinctions of what is and is not Love, since the “love” that we in ego consciousness are unknowingly referring to is a form of love that is under the filter of survival. So what I’m saying is that you can become conscious that for example that the holocaust occurred because of God’s Love. Not only that, you can also become conscious that you caused that. Why? Because you Love. Because Creation. Now, obviously that’s a very radical realization but nonetheless it is the case. Bringing that into one’s own life and going around with that realization as an ever present conscious experience is a totally other matter. 

[Brenzo2]

This post is a creation of your own mind lmao. 

[Aeris]

9 hours ago, DJ said:

My thought on the subject is that unconditional love is a concept made up by the mind. Just like the concept of enlightenment.

concept are truth if you can experience them.

[kieranperez]

@Mikael89 you're missing the point of what I'm communicating. I'm referring to SAGE and MYSTICS. I'm not just talking about enlightenment. 

I'm NOT saying someone who doesn't know Spiral Dynamics isn't fully enlightened. I don't know where you're reading that. You don't need to know Spiral Dynamics or other developmental models to be at 2nd or even 3rd tier. That distinction isn't necessary. 

What I'm communicating is that the mystics and sages from hundreds and also thousands of years ago would not be fully enlightened today in the 21st century. A stage Blue mystic/sage who contributed ENORMOUSLY to their time and culture - which is based around a certain stage of development - put into the 21st century wouldn't be fully enlightened today because enlightenment, consciousness, and spiritual work is also about the integration and embodiment of the realization. The degree to which how much one embodies the infinite has a strong relationship to one's personal level of development (how far along they are in the many different levels and lines of development). How far along you are in your own development actually very much depends upon how many perspectives one can integrate into their own psyche and being. Which is why shadow work is so important today in spirituality. Hardcore Blue Zen masters still only see things from the lens of their traditions and that actually is a hinderance in their own consciousness. The embodiment of one's own realization is stunted if you can't actually integrate and expand your perspective to transcend and include all perspectives into your being and psyche. Which is what what Ken Wilber's integral theory (or what Leo calls Spiral Dynamics) and overall evolution is - transcend and include perspectives. This demands raising one's cognitive development and a myriad of other areas of development. 

This doesn't diminish mystics and sages of the past. 

[kieranperez]

14 hours ago, DJ said:

My thought on the subject is that unconditional love is a concept made up by the mind. Just like the concept of enlightenment.

You're only shooting yourself in the foot here man. Drop it.

7 hours ago, Brenzo2 said:

This post is a creation of your own mind lmao. 

Your arrogance shows your lack of understanding. 

Your judgement and criticism of others is a creation of your own mind.

[kieranperez]

15 hours ago, DJ said:

My thought on the subject is that unconditional love is a concept made up by the mind. Just like the concept of enlightenment.

Your playing only on one side of the street and missing the big picture of what’s being communicated.

You’re actually displaying my point of lacking perspective. 

This neo advaita pathology of its all an illusion so therefore reality isn’t getting more complex and more nuanced is a pathology from lack understanding and going outside of your bubble.

You’re not getting the paradox here. 

• The world is absolutely perfect and nothing wrong and so therefore we have to work extrodinarily hard to change all the catostrophes going on. 
• There is only one Self and there are no others to save and so you vow to do everything you can to save them.

This is not a mere matter of disagreement based on opinion. Reality is both insanely and complex and dead simple and it’s your job, our job, and my job (because al such perspective ultimately are one) is play that dance. 

[kieranperez]

33 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

(Addition to my posts above.)

The Truth is beyond the world, so it's irrelevant what happens or doesn't happen in the world.

I dare to you say that to an enlightened master in person while trying to look him/her in they eyes LOL you damn devil. 

Of course you think you don’t have any responsibility in the matter. Just another a sign that shows that all of this for you is all talk with no real genuine insight - much less the humility. You don’t give two shits about truth. Only whatever serves your own selfishness to not take any action and recognize your responsibility. Neglecting the world is neglecting yourself. 

Let me make this clear before more additional dribble: 

I am not enlightened. I am not awake. I’m still a fool. However, I recognize and am honest about what I have not become conscious of but also that which I do know and understand and what I have learned displayed from people who’ve devoted their lives to this work for thousands of years up till today. I’m not saying I’m more awake than you. I’m not here to play peacocking games. I am here to say though that what you’re reguritating is nothing but talk. You’re dribble about nonduality is just more lazy neoadvaitan garbage. I suggest you toss that and take responsibility for your life and humble yourself to the task at hand. 

Edited June 1, 2019 by kieranperez

[kag101]

On 6/1/2019 at 0:33 AM, kieranperez said:

As far as that Benthino guy: You have to separate realization from embodiment and also ego development. It’s very common for people who have genuine deep enlightenments of which the realization “sticks” to actually get “worse” as a person because they deepen repressed unconscious shadow material. He seems to be a guy that seems to have genuine experiential understanding of enlightenment, yet very partial. Realizing Love is very different than embodying Love. Which leads me to the next point...

Exactly!

In fact, a no-self experience is not that rare, actually. Almost anyone can have one by using, for example, psychedelics (responsibly, of course). 

Mystical experience = Enlightenment experience = No-self experience = Samadhi = Sattori = Metanoia = Kundalini = Existential Epiphany 

One of my favorite books on the spiritual Path is called, "After The Ecstasy, The Laundry," by Jack Kornfield. He talked with various spiritual people who had enlightenment experiences. In one case, a guy had a full-blown enlightenment experience for two months; then, 1 year later, he crashed into a crippling depression. 

Quote

“As surely as there is a voyage away, there is a journey home.” 
― Jack Kornfield, After the Ecstasy, the Laundry

A lot of people can stuck in the no-self insight. But that alone won't fix our "material problems". That's why therapy is so important. With a good psychologist, we can better understand the mechanics of our shadow. If we don't do that, we might become like Bentinho Massaro. A guy who has had some insight on the True Self, but he hasn't do any shadow work. So his enlightenment is incomplete. Using @Leo Gura's term, Bentinho Massaro is a "zen devil".