Survival video

[Elia]

@Leo Gura that was an interesting video and got me thinking towards the end, it is ironic how this goes:

 

survival --> suffering --> observe and change survival to reduce suffering --> better survival. 

 

 

 

[Omni]

Everything goes full circle

[Leo Gura]

Suffering is a principle tool of survival. You create suffering to ensure you stay alive.

[bonesurfer]

Jesus Christ, Leo. What a mindfuck. Who am I again??

[Truth Addict]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Suffering is a principle tool of survival. You create suffering to ensure you stay alive.

Why death occurs then? That means all the suffering was for nothing.

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Why death occurs then? That means all the suffering was for nothing.

All suffering was to ensure you lived a long life. Of course in the end all life comes to nothing. But there is a big difference between living 0 years and 80 years from your POV.

[Truth Addict]

@Leo Gura I disagree.

Suffering cannot prevent death, so it's not created to ensure survival. No matter how much I suffer, I can't escape the inevitable.

Perhaps it's just a part of the plan, nothing more, nothing less, no meaning, no value.

Then again, perhaps not.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Inliytened1]

Here's how it works..and Leo feel free to disagree but this is what I've experienced and learned over my 48 yrs - and i believe suffering played a huge rule in my Awakening experiences.

The ego doesn't want to suffer, not purposely of course.  It want's pleasure.  So it goes out and scours for resources..gets money..women..sex..etc etc.  But what happens is this counter intuitively leads to suffering..because ultimately what the ego thinks will bring happiness does the opposite.  The ego is completely selfish and cares only for itself.

Now, even more counterintuitively, this very suffering that our own ego caused us now actually leads to spiritual growth and alignment with our True self.  It causes us to become more conscious and we start to become conscious of what is really important.

Through this process we are slowly purifying ourselves of the Ego's devilry.

So its like a vicious cycle.  Our ego will still want pleasure, which leads to suffering, more consciousness, then cycle repeats.  But slowly you begin to transcend the Ego and maybe even have an awakening experience if you are lucky enough to stumble into spirituality and start meditating.

This is exactly what happened to me.

Now, with all this wisdom you can actually harness suffering and that's where retreats come in.  In this way you are consciously trying to invoke suffering rather than having it happen inadvertently from the Ego's stupidity.  

Again this is my story and Leo you may completely disagree.

 

[Truth Addict]

@Inliytened1

It was you all along. No ego, no God. Since they're the same thing. You.

And everything you said is just a story of your imagination. Nothing less, nothing more.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Inliytened1]

@Truth Addict ahh Truth...ya know for some bizarre reason you are the only Materialist around here i like (besides Coldfacts)...so I'm going to ignore that in the hopes that you being here on this forum means there is a part of you that wants to grow and gain wisdom - and not just try to tell others what they did and did not experience.

[Truth Addict]

@Inliytened1

You might want to apply your advice (hopes) first.

I'm not a materialist my friend. I'm a skeptical, and the best thing I could ground myself in yet is agnosticism. I'm comfortable with not-knowing. I'm not sure why many of you aren't.

The things I was saying are not mine to be honest. They're yours and Leo's.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Inliytened1]

Thats understandable.  I was an atheist my whole life.  But you are a Materialist also as you still believe your awareness is happening inside your brain.

And that's fine too...but let me ask you...do you meditate? Are you open minded enough to see if maybe Agnosticism may not be the answer?

Also these are not Leo's or mine..there are plenty of Awakened people out there.  

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

@Leo Gura I disagree.

Suffering cannot prevent death, so it's not created to ensure survival. No matter how much I suffer, I can't escape the inevitable.

Don't disagree. Sit down and observe what suffering actually is and why you create it.

Suffering arises out of resistance. Resistance is pure survival. If you did not care about survival you would not resist or suffer.

Death isn't a real thing. You imagine it to maintain your false identity.

[Truth Addict]

Well

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't disagree. Sit down and observe what suffering actually is and why you create it.

I did. It's not that resistance creates suffering, but rather that they're actually the same thing. When I resist anything at all, including paradise, I suffer.

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Resistance is pure survival.

And so is happiness and everything else. Everything that happens is part of survival. Survival is not exclusive to suffering. The imaginary self can attach itself to all sorts of things, and therefore suffer for them. It's all about perspective and preferences.

You said earlier that the purpose of survival is to ensure living a long life. But the physical survival is not the same thing as the egoic survival. The egoic survival can hinder/enhance the physical survival in many different ways. So, just to be clear. Are we discussing physical or egoic survival here?

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Death isn't a real thing. You imagine it to maintain your false identity.

We're talking in relative terms.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Truth Addict]

57 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

you are a Materialist also as you still believe your awareness is happening inside your brain.

I don't believe that, I know that it's just a paradigm and I jump between paradigms pragmatically. The materialist paradigm is good for the practical life (external). The consciousness paradigm (dream paradigm) is good for happiness (internal). I'm not attached to either of them.

57 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Do you meditate?

I meditate at least 2×30 mins a day. I'm very happy and calm.

57 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Are you open minded enough to see if maybe Agnosticism may not be the answer?

Of course, but I don't have the instruments. I don't have access to psychedelics, I don't have enough time to self-inquire all day long or to go on a retreat, and I don't have the money to travel somewhere else. I'm 22 years old, I'm still studying/working.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Truth Addict