All thinking is survival

[Inliytened1]

@Leo Gura That was my point..if its deluded its survival.  

Truth is very counterintuitive to the Ego.  

For example you go against your own ego's desire for pleasure and make plans to go on a 30 day retreat with intentions to suffer.  But your ego immediately kicks in and tries to talk you out of it.  Even during the retreat your ego will be trying to delude you.

But you will feel the suffering at some point - and that is not delusion.  Just as feeling Love can be not deluded.  That suffering will align you with Truth even though your ego fought you the whole way.

Its very counter intuitive.

[How to be wise]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is false.

All feelings have a voice, something that they are saying. It doesn’t take a genius to know that.

[Brenzo2]

2 hours ago, How to be wise said:

Feeling is always a product of mind. Perhaps not as thoughts, but as underlying stories or beliefs. There can be no feeling without a story.

Do you by any chance identify with underlying stories or beliefs? ? Throw this to the fire if you do my dude ? 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Brenzo2
Rambling lmao

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

All feelings have a voice, something that they are saying. It doesn’t take a genius to know that.

You are just parroting words here without actually bothering to investigate your direct experience.

Locate within yourself the distinction between a thought and a feeling. It is there to be located.

[Norbert Lennartz]

@Leo Gura
Feelings are not only an expression of external facts, but also of our own judgement.
Is that controversial?
 

[How to be wise]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You are just parroting words here without actually bothering to investigate your direct experience.

Locate within yourself the distinction between a thought and a feeling. It is there to be located.

I’m speaking from my direct experience. Although I’ve also heard this from other gurus.

[Norbert Lennartz]

How deep it goes.
Let us debunk deeper.

I am frightened of fat spiders. This is a burned-in or stored thought from some past. It doesn't matter how it gets there. It is there as soon as the spider is there.

But it could be that we only argue about words. Is there anything at all that we receive without any judgment? (By the way: A filter is already a judgment, isn't it?)
I would say no. It is impossible to receive anything from the outside in its Wholeness. (By the way: the Cartesian question goes inward, doesn't it?)

So we cannot receive the whole Wholeness from the outside. We can only do experimenting around. What we get is at best a copy of the non-dual Truth. Each copy probably has a loss of Reality. (Although in practice there are ways to reduce the loss. But that's another issue).
So what can we do in misery? We can only absorb information and process it so that it does not contradict what we have already accepted or dangerously need to accept. So we build ourselves an order with which we feel comfortable and with which we can cope in our lives. That is very pragmatic. And since everyone pursues a different life and has a slightly different assembly, these individual orders can also be very different in the end.
But this assembly in itself is a purely internal process, which is completely in accordance with Oneness. The social problem arises because we let a different set of facts affect us, which does not allow us to have and live compatible inner orders. And that is very dangerous.

[Norbert Lennartz]

All life is definitely for survival. (Except dying in some way, but that is unimportant here.)
But in Oneness (or Turquoise) it doesn't matter anymore whether something serves survival or not because we are aware of it. So I'm deviating a bit from Leo here.

We know what a machine gun can do and yet the military is under the control of the wrong people. People who are not aware that they are struggling to survive because of what they are doing don't understand the reasons why they produce conflicts lovelessly and often unnecessarily, referring to beliefs so as not to go mad themselves.
It must be remembered here that survival, evolution, is not a rational process. It is not the purpose of evolution to produce more highly developed forms of life. Life fills niches and occupies them without asking for any ethical sense. And that happens to us humans too. People cannot get out of this trap unless they realize themselves on another reflective, recursive level. That is why they remain like zombies spiritually standing and sticking to what they have. These are, of course, contradictions that inevitably arise by following dualities. But in this way they are incapable of dissolving them. They have no mental means to do so. This is similar to eating their brains because they no longer need them. (There is such a creature, I don't know if it was a jellyfish or something.) From their limited perspective, it is rational to ponder what the lesser evil is. For the awakened, that means they are uncooperative with you in many things. And then they are literally a half-dead instance of the uncooperative, rationalizing and configuring with other uncooperative demons to succeed in maintaining their own instance. A product of evolution. We would have to come mentally away from having to choose a rationalized evil. It is no coincidence that democracy happens this Count Dracula way.

[Norbert Lennartz]

What bothers me about Leo's video is merely that he says that the self-definition of the living is irrational and illogical. That's wrong, of course. That's natural unfolding of potential. That is highly rational and logical. Otherwise it wouldn't be. But it is chaotic. Evolution does not follow a visible plan. If life arises, it is simply a destiny that gives itself a self-sustaining and producing (autopoietic) structure. It is an instance that gives itself a quasi arbitrary value that it pursues. 

[Norbert Lennartz]

But is there something in our lives that is not survival? Wait a minute.

Trying to be the way I am. Not trying to become something. Not trying to resist.
Because life is based on movement.

Hmm. I could let myself freeze.