Ken Wilber - Conscious Reincarnation

[legendary]

 A very tricky subject indeed.

[Leo Gura]

The problem with the "leaving a note" approach is that if you die and you have a choice to reincarnate as whatever you want, your perspective will be so much broader at that point after death that you will not care about honoring any note you left behind. You might reincarnate on some other planet in some other universe as some non-human being. Reincarnating just for the sake of demonstrating reincarnation to other humans is a really silly game. That is not the purpose of reincarnation.

[Forestluv]

This bings a dream analogy to mind. . . My dreams are new storylines each time. I may have a dream about surfing with an old high school friend in California. A week later, I may dream that I’m a character traveling through Ecuador on an expedition. There are no connections and memories  between the dreams. It’s not like a dream character thinks “Wow, last Tuesday I was a surfer that lived in San Diego and now I’m a botanist studying fauna in Ecuador. I wonder if I can still surf”. The next dream I may be a magician in a another world.

The higher consciousness in which all my dreams arise has no interest in connecting dream storylines. It seems to like to create new stories from scratch.  Yet, sometimes there is a sense of deja-vu within a dream. 

[Nahm]

I left a note which I recently found. It said, “there’s no reincarnation”. 

Not sure what to make of it. 

[Leo Gura]

54 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

The higher consciousness in which all my dreams arise has no interest in connecting dream storylines. It seems to like to create new stories from scratch.  Yet, sometimes there is a sense of deja-vu within a dream.

Except there is a common through-line between dreams. Your psyche is uniquely your psyche. Dreams ARE connected to your psyche. You often have repeating dreams and you dream about stuff which is related to your life experiences, although often in very loose ways. You work stuff out in your dreams. This is actually directly analogous to how reincarnation could work. There is a deeper structure which unifies all your lifetimes. This structure would be called the soul. It is like the mothership which sends down many probes to a new planet. Destruction of any probe does not harm the mothership. The mothership collects all the lessons of each dead probe and visits many different planets. The mothership itself could of course also be destroyed but that's another matter. The mothership is far more conscious and capable than any of its probes.

[Forestluv]

@Leo Gura Can a probe become aware of the Mothership?

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Leo Gura Can a probe become aware of the Mothership?

Seems like it. Tons of people report having done so.

Actually the "soul" is guiding your whole life. If you want to think of it that way. It is your highest self. It's the thing which compels you to pursue spirituality and reunite with God. Without that you'd never awaken. Which is why most people never awaken: their souls are too crude and unevolved.

At least that's the theory if you want to buy into reincarnation.

One of the most compelling reasons for buying into reincarnation is that it explains why people have such different inclinations and attunement for spiritual work. This cannot be explained through genetics or upbringing alone. It's obvious that some people are MUCH more spiritually attuned than others from birth. The best explanation for this is past lives.

The souls of the majority of mankind are quiet crude. Which explains why mankind is in such a big mess.

We are NOT all the same. If you've ever wondered why you don't fit in and how other people could be so dull, materialistic, and shallow, well, here's your answer. Most folks need to live through many more lifetimes before they learn their lesson. One lifetime is just not enough.

Consider the possibility that the reason you're able to do this work at all is because you've already lived through 300 lifetimes of total barbarism and stupidity. Imagine if you were Stalin in a past life. LOL.

[AlwaysBeNice]

Quote

 It's obvious that some people are MUCH more spiritually attuned than others from birth. 

Can't really tell in babies, or toddlers, I'd say, and no one can remember either except for a few.

[Forestluv]

@Leo Gura According to the theory, as the soul lives through lifetimes, can it gradually progress? 

I’ve met a lot of people that seem to sorta “get it”. Like there is something they can sense or they have glimpses of awakening. It is string enough to be a “knowing”, yet isn’t clear and pure. Some people seem to seek clarity through psychics, paranormal, past life regressions, hypnosis, dream analysis etc., while others seem to seek clarity by cleansing / purifying away egoic tendencies.  

Some people believe that others can spot an “old soul” or that there are soul connections. Not in an immature “soul mate” kinda way - a deeper resonance. 

In the mothership analogy, this might be like a probe becoming partially aware that there is “something”, yet it is hazy and cloudy - a low resolution view of the mothership. And have a sense that it’s own existence as a probe has been rebuilt before. 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

I left a note which I recently found. It said, “there’s no reincarnation”. 

Not sure what to make of it. 

Reminds me of a few notes to self while tripping ?

As well, previous life characters can be little jokesters.  

[mandyjw]

@Nahm I recently found this note that I wrote in the night sometime weeks ago, and I laughed and laughed and laughed. I have no idea, "write this down" is clear but the rest? No idea. 

[Leo Gura]

45 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

According to the theory, as the soul lives through lifetimes, can it gradually progress? 

Of course.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

Can't really tell in babies, or toddlers, I'd say, and no one can remember either except for a few.

Spiritually attuned people know they are not normal. Not at all normal.

[Chi_]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 Reincarnating just for the sake of demonstrating reincarnation to other humans is a really silly game. That is not the purpose of reincarnation.

 

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

In the book "More than a life" it is written how Sadhguru's past life version of him consciously planned to return back as a human being to complete his mission. Eventhough he didn't do it to prove reincarnation it seems like its possible if its true. I guess returning to complete a mission is a better reason than to prove a point about reincarnation itself. 

I also saw in a video eventhough I am not sure if it's authentic, that he had planned it precisely to the very womb to which he will be born in his current life so that his mission could be completed

Edited May 28, 2019 by Chi_

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Chi_ said:

I also saw in a video eventhough I am not sure if it's authentic, that he had planned it precisely to the very womb to which he will be born in his current life so that his mission could be completed

That may be possible. But it would also be very rare. You'd need to have some very important reason for doing so. That's not something you'd do on a whim.

[Chi_]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That may be possible. But it would also be very rare. You'd need to have some very important reason for doing so. That's not something you'd do on a whim.

True, in his case it was his life's mission which was the Dhyanalinga

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Spiritually attuned people know they are not normal. Not at all normal.

Do you think some neurosis in spiritually attuned people are caused, in part, by developing an identity that they are abnormal and trying to be “normal”? (without being aware their “abnormality” is spiritual attunement). For these types of neuroses, awareness would be curative.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Do you think some neurosis in spiritually attuned people are caused, in part, by developing an identity that they are abnormal and trying to be “normal”? (without being aware their “abnormality” is spiritual attunement). For these types of neuroses, awareness would be curative.

Definitely.

If you are spiritually atuned but your society gaslights you by telling you you're crazy, that can create a very difficult upbringing. This can not only lead to neurosis but even psychosis.

This is a classic problem. People with paranormal powers are especially vulnerable since materialist society refuses to admit such things are real. No doctor or therapist will admit it so people don't know where to turn.

Witches and psychics need to forge their own paths. They cannot just follow the herd. It can take them decades to fully accept their abilities and learn how to use them responsibly.

It's very much like being a Force-sensitive Jedi without any master to train you. A lot of things can go wrong.

It's not just a matter of awareness, such folks need good guidance from masters, and they need to do lots of research. They also need to find like-mind people to befriend.

[Forestluv]

I had thought the Salem witch trials was a bizarre case of irrational superstitious townsfolk. Yet now that I think about it, there were probably a small percentage of the population that had paranormal abilities. And it was probably harder to hide it back then. The townspeople may have sensed something odd about them and became scared of them. 

In a way, society is kinda doing a similar thing. Just a 21st century version. 

It makes it much harder to follow that path. Few teachers, various dangers, being marginalized and ostracized. Imagine if those with abilities were freely able to practice and train. Perhaps paranormals will one day be fighting for equal rights as a minority.

[Leo Gura]

@Serotoninluv The Catholic Church had been hunting witches for like 300 years in Europe. Witches were in engaging in pagan rituals and psychedelics which threatened the monopoly and orthodoxy of The Chruch.

Of course this witch craze got used as an excuse to then silence and excute anyone who was an enemy of The Chruch, even if they weren't a proper witch. The Chruch demonized witches and anything resembling witchcraft.

Many of our most advanced mystics were silenced or executed. As is still done in the Middle East.

Such is how devilry works. The illusion of duality must be maintained at all costs.