A few questions about psychedelics

[ColdFacts]

1 minute ago, Aeris said:

Psychédélics are différent in the way that they are the contrary of alcohol.

You take off the lie-glasses about yourself.

Of course you can prob reach those states with heavy experiences

It alters your critical thinking can you deny that?, and also whatever insights you get back(if possible) will be wrong in some aspect and true in some other but you won't tell the difference.

[ColdFacts]

3 minutes ago, Jacobsrw said:

@ColdFactsThat’s not how they work though. They open metaphysical doorways that are acting opportunities for you raise awareness in your physical reality. They have potential to provide  insight that then you can utilise in your “natural state”. Basically, their advantage is they can shed years of trauma and psychological torment from just one responsible experience with them. 

They are not a high you dispense of them have no take away. They have outcome in physical growth. I would say they can put you 5 steps ahead rather than the 2 you may get from traditional medicine.

Only thing you can take back is damage to your senses responsible for memory which of course is preferred to trauma, but not for a healthy individual. If you want to hide from reality then you can take this because over time it surely will damage them.

[Jacobsrw]

@ColdFacts Again, they do not damage neurological processes in the brain such as memory and sense perception. In fact it is natural medicine that has these damaging outcomes.

Research psychedelics and look at how they interact with neurotransmitters and receptors in the brain. They bind without damage.

Just have a open minded exploration in research. I recommend it. It sounds like you may have been convinced by mainstream media. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Jacobsrw

[Forestluv]

@ColdFacts There is an underlying assumption here that there is an external objective reality. That there is a standard of a “normal” reality and deviations from that are “distortions” from this standard of normalcy. This type of view can provide a sense of grounding and stability to a mind and body - and allow an ego to maintain an illusory sense of control over a mental narrative. From this framework, psychedelics are “distortions” from the grounding of normalcy and are not to be trusted. This protects the ego, mind, body from the groundless - it is a survival mechanism.

[ColdFacts]

1 minute ago, Serotoninluv said:

@ColdFacts There is an underlying assumption here that there is an external objective reality. That there is a standard of a “normal” reality and deviations from that are “distortions” from this standard of normalcy. This type of view can provide a sense of grounding and stability to a mind and body - and allow an ego to maintain an illusory sense of control over a mental narrative. From this framework, psychedelics are “distortions” from the grounding of normalcy and are not to be trusted. This protects the ego, mind, body from the groundless - it is a survival mechanism.

Did you always have this mindset? I doubt it, when you were a kid you had a other mindset, which is physically the highest possible by evolution, if your current mindset is due to that natural physical body then you have the right to claim what you claim. But i suspect you took this stuff expereinced what you experienced took that altered information from those experienced to reality, information which you can't tell what is right or wrong and then build upon that or even worse you have taken this stuff so long that it damged your senses to the point that it sticks also in reality.

[Consilience]

3 minutes ago, ColdFacts said:

Evolution at least to our knowledge has created humans with the best body to comprehend reality, and for me it makes no sense that some substance found freely in nature can beat all those millions of years of evolution just like that. It's awareness in that state recommended by nature that created science, and religion too and everything we know so far that has value. If you can't trust your hands with distorted information processing why should you trust your own brain with distorted information processing? 

You’re assuming a lot about evolution here. A lot of beliefs that are nothing more than your mind projecting. 

Additionally, you’re entire argument rests on a metaphysical belief system of materialism. The brain doesn't produce consciousness, that is a yet another metaphysical belief system bread by mainstream science no different than dogmatic religion. 

Music, emotions, the weather, food, pets, relationships, media, sickness, comfort, nature (the list goes to infinity) all affect your perceptions of reality. Literally everything is always affecting perceptions and the senses. Psychedelics are no different except that they shift your awareness on overdrive.

Psychedelics have much less to do with shifting perception (technically a lot are hallucinogenic) and more to do with literally increasing your consciousness. Are you open to that possibility?  

[ColdFacts]

6 minutes ago, Jacobsrw said:

@ColdFacts Again, they do not damage neurological processes in the brain such as memory and sense perception. In fact it is natural medicine that has these damaging outcomes.

Research psychedelics and look at how they interact with neurotransmitters and receptors in the brain. They bind without damage.

Just have a open minded exploration in research. I recommend it. It sounds like you may have been convinced by mainstream media. 

It will alter you physical body even if you like it doesn't, and then it will alter your psychological body, ect ect. If you cant accept that it altered your physical body, i'm sorry for you.

[ColdFacts]

2 minutes ago, Consilience said:

You’re assuming a lot about evolution here. A lot of beliefs that are nothing more than your mind projecting. 

Additionally, you’re entire argument rests on a metaphysical belief system of materialism. The brain doesn't produce consciousness, that is a yet another metaphysical belief system bread by mainstream science no different than dogmatic religion. 

Music, emotions, the weather, food, pets, relationships, media, sickness, comfort, nature (the list goes to infinity) all affect your perceptions of reality. Literally everything is always affecting perceptions and the senses. Psychedelics are no different except that they shift your awareness on overdrive.

Psychedelics have much less to do with shifting perception (technically a lot are hallucinogenic) and more to do with literally increasing your consciousness. Are you open to that possibility?  

As i already wrote, you have created or enforced this mindset with the use of those substance it never sticked to you before did it? When you were a 10 this was impossible and a 20 year as well. It's the substance speaking, over time it will damage your senses and it will be easier to stick to it even in your normal phase.

[Aeris]

18 minutes ago, ColdFacts said:

It alters your critical thinking can you deny that?, and also whatever insights you get back(if possible) will be wrong in some aspect and true in some other but you won't tell the difference.

It alters a bit' not in the case of LSD in fact it increase " resolving intuition " if you think of something it expand toward this thing. 

 

[ColdFacts]

Just now, Aeris said:

It alters a bit' not in the case of LSD in fact it increase " resolving intuition " if you think of something it expand toward this thing. 

 

There is no helping you if what i said makes no sense.

[Consilience]

5 minutes ago, ColdFacts said:

As i already wrote, you have created or enforced this mindset with the use of those substance it never sticked to you before did it? When you were a 10 this was impossible and a 20 year as well. It's the substance speaking, over time it will damage your senses and it will be easier to stick to it even in your normal phase.

There is no mindset. It’s the opposite of mindset. Psychedelics literally blow apart your mind and launch you into insane levels of BEING. Only when the egoic mind returns after a trip would mindsets form. The essence of a strong trip is that there is no longer a mind, or identity. Just pure consciousness.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Consilience

[ColdFacts]

Just now, Consilience said:

There is no mindset. It’s the oppsotire of mindset. Psychedelics literally blow apart your mind and launch you into insane levels of BEING. Only when the egoic mind returns after a trip would mindsets form. The essence of a strong is that there is no longer a mind, or identity. Just pure consciousness.

No my friend that is not true, if you had this mindset without ever using the substance then you had every right to claim so, but you had this after taking it, and it's that wrong information from that substance use speaking. Over time you will build and invest emotions on that false information and it will be even harder to let go, it will be like breaking up, your emotions will come in the way.

[Aeris]

8 minutes ago, ColdFacts said:

Did you always have this mindset? I doubt it, when you were a kid you had a other mindset, which is physically the highest possible by evolution, if your current mindset is due to that natural physical body then you have the right to claim what you claim. But i suspect you took this stuff expereinced what you experienced took that altered information from those experienced to reality, information which you can't tell what is right or wrong and then build upon that or even worse you have taken this stuff so long that it damged your senses to the point that it sticks also in reality.

There is no such things as right or wrong. Don't need drug for knowing the obvious

[ColdFacts]

Just now, Aeris said:

There is no such things as right or wrong. Don't need drug for knowing the obvious

Look if you accept information or insights before the substance, then even that might be wrong or it could be true i am not arguing with that at all, i am arguing about the information you took or renforced after taking the substance.

[Forestluv]

@ColdFacts The ego has a strong desire to control the mental narrative - it’s survival depends on it. A common mechanism is to grasp and attach to objectivism for grounding. Anything that is perceived to challenge and disrupt that grounding is seen as threatening. It’s not just psychedelics - there are many ways to disrupt this grounding. . . If psychedelics are bothersome to your mind and body, then simply don’t do them. There are various other methods for personal growth and awakening. Each mind-body will resonate with various methods differently, depending in part on prior conditioning of mind-body and it’s current stage of development, maturity and baseline consciousness.

[Matt8800]

@ColdFacts Thats a nice theory but does not match direct experience of psychedelics. I assume you havent had much experience with psychedelics.

[Jacobsrw]

@ColdFacts I feel you are again missing what I am saying. Your perception of reality is already an hallucination. Your preconceiving that what you perceive as of now holds true accuracy. That is a massive assumption. One that can be deeply debunked.

A dream too distorts your sense of reality does that mean your sense of reality after the dream is damaged? No of course not. A psychedelic experience is just that, an experience. An experience of heightened consciousness of what already lurks within your mind. And further taking you beyond the mind.

Just to make a note. I have not done psychedelics and would not at all say they are required to understand what is being said within this thread.

What everyone is saying really is not far fetched or ludicrous. It just requires a deeper introspection beyond the constructs you may have initially been endowed with.

You seem to be undermining the metaphysical nature of both experience, reality and your mind.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Jacobsrw

[ColdFacts]

Just now, Serotoninluv said:

@ColdFacts The ego has a strong desire to control the mental narrative - it’s survival depends on it. A common mechanism is to grasp and attach to objectivism for grounding. Anything that is perceived to challenge and disrupt that grounding is seen as threatening. It’s not just psychedelics - there are many ways to disrupt this grounding. . . If psychedelics are bothersome to your mind and body, then simply don’t do them. There are various other methods for personal growth and awakening. Each mind-body will resonate with various methods differently, depending in part on prior conditioning of mind-body and it’s current stage of development, maturity and baseline consciousness.

Again we can see that the addiction or emotional resistance using information to defend itself, all this what you said could have been in your head before but it was with more authority after the use of the substance, before when you first learned about all this i wasn't installed like this. You have build upon this a lot of things, genuine real emotion on the normal phase of your body, that will resist like crazy and together with that the false information you might have installed with the susbtance.

[Consilience]

8 minutes ago, ColdFacts said:

No my friend that is not true, if you had this mindset without ever using the substance then you had every right to claim so, but you had this after taking it, and it's that wrong information from that substance use speaking. Over time you will build and invest emotions on that false information and it will be even harder to let go, it will be like breaking up, your emotions will come in the way.

You’re not listening. It’s literally not a mindset. Ive achieved this state through meditation, yoga, contemplation before. Psychedelics only temporarily amplified BEING. 

Being has LITERALLY nothing to do with the mind or mindsets. It is a priori to any mind or any sense. It is the underlying essence of your entire existence but are you conscious of that? 

 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Consilience

[ColdFacts]

1 minute ago, Consilience said:

You’re not listening. It’s literally not a mindset. Ive achieved this state through meditation, yoga, contemplation before. Psychedelics only temporarily amplified BEING. 

Being has LITERALLY nothing to do with the mind or mindsets. It is a priori to any mind or any sense. It is the underlying essence of your entire existence but are you conscious of that? 

 

The authority of the information in your head was altered, meditation gives it the right authority unlike the substances.