I appreciate Leo Gura more than I used to.

[CreamCat]

The more time I spend on this forum, the more it becomes apparent that 99.9% of forum users are far less developed than he is.

He may not be the most advanced learner, but he is far above forum users.

He has his own flaws like being too quick to judge sometimes. But, he is honest, non-manipulative, and non-coercive. He seems to understand love.

I've seen people who pretend to be advanced students but try to coerce, lock down, or otherwise manipulate others. He is not a pretender or a manipulative asshole. Honesty and non-manipulation and non-coercion are hard to come by.

That's why I follow only a handful people.

[dinone]

He is rare gem.

[Rilles]

Its a hard trying to look good infront of so many people and running a forum at the same time. I think hes doing real good. Its kind of like being the President, some are gonna love you and some want to snipe you from the Grassy Knoll. 

[Aeris]

4 hours ago, Rilles said:

Its a hard trying to look good infront of so many people and running a forum at the same time. I think hes doing real good. Its kind of like being the President, some are gonna love you and some want to snipe you from the Grassy Knoll. 

I m on the roof with the sniper. But Joseph is on the gatling 

[Aeris]

I appreciate the idea of a tree for knowledge, not only stages.

it means if you work on your physical, you cannot work totaly on your mental and vice versa.

of course you can work on EVERYTHING

[CreamCat]

34 minutes ago, Shiva said:

It's a great challenge to make someone realize his own underdevelopment

You forgot that not everyone has a penis. Self delusion and devilry have no gender.

34 minutes ago, Shiva said:

It's an even greater challenge to realize one's own level of underdevelopment.

I can safely assume that I'm not advanced. But, some people on this forum are overestimating their development way too much. They think they are advanced just because they have done personal development for more than 10 years. They may know more concepts, but I could see that their emotional development is stunted at Blue or some other low stages of Spiral Dynamics and I can see that they have learned all sorts of random unimportant concepts. In the long term, lack of emotional development stunts their performance and their cognitive development even though they have worked on development for many years. The sad part is that if I point at their lack of development, they will just get angry due to lack of emotional development. It's also called dunning-kruger effect. There is a proverb, "don't throw pearls before swines".

Or, they are not here to learn, but here to appropriate Leo's forum for advancing their own personal/political agendas. Some people talk very little about personal development but a lot about certain ways that politics should be done or what kinds of political views we are allowed to have. When someone writes a lot more about political enemies than about love, I can guess that the person is not here to learn.

Edited May 26, 2019 by CreamCat

[CreamCat]

16 minutes ago, Shiva said:

Err..., what? 

You said "his own development". A genderless pronoun such as "one's own development" is more fitting. Your word choice could imply that men are more deluded. In my direct experiences, women are no better. I'd say men and women are delusional in different ways. Leo once said there's 1~2% difference between us and nazis.

16 minutes ago, Shiva said:

Then, either they weren't as developed as you thought after all, or you need to improve your ability to give feedback.

In almost all cases, I see through lack of emotional development after exchanging one or two comments. Lack of emotional development usually manifests in the form of absolutist ideological thinking which I have grown out of. They often think they are Green, but they are emotionally Blue. That's one of typical types of people on this forum.

Yes, I can improve my ability to give feedback, but I don't count much on it. After seeing some users for months, I concluded that they are probably going to be close-minded until death or until a disaster happens. Or, optimizing my life toward convincing each kind of delusional people would take too much time from doing important work.

At some point, you got to accept that some or many people are not going to be your people.

Edited May 26, 2019 by CreamCat

[CreamCat]

7 minutes ago, Shiva said:

I think we need to appreciate that Spiral Dynamics is a slow process.

Imbalanced development is a bigger problem. For some people, emotional development is at Red/Blue and cognitive development is mainly Green and a bit Yellow. Such people think they are infallible. Imaginary infallibility can easily stunt emotional development for decades.

It's probably too late. But, if God wants to be drunken and unconscious, that's God's privilege. God has total freedom over its creation. As Leo said, Pablo Picasso trained to be a very good realist artist but chose to draw randomly after drinking a lot of vodka. They are like drunken Picasso.

Edited May 26, 2019 by CreamCat

[CreamCat]

5 minutes ago, Shiva said:

I don't mean to criticise, but if you want more balanced development, the obvious solution would be for you to spiral down to the average level.

By moving up the spiral, you yourself are creating more imbalance.

That's what I have done. Cognitive development is far easier than emotional development. I deliberately chose to focus on emotional development.

Cognitive development is going to be crippled if it is not balanced with emotional development.

Edited May 26, 2019 by CreamCat

[CreamCat]

10 minutes ago, Shiva said:

do you realize that by developing yourself emotionally, you move up the spiral and hence, contribute to the imbalance of development that you said is the problem?

Right now, my emotional development is several steps behind cognitive development.

[Norbert Lennartz]

48 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

When someone writes a lot more about political enemies than about love, I can guess that the person is not here to learn.

Thank you for that wise sentence.

It should be added that if someone writes much about praying to the state as God and little about love, then that is also the case. Because he produces enemies because of the lack of love. Where there is pure love, there are no social problems, as Krishnamurti teaches. One can address dualistic problems only in the dualistic way and yet simultaneously with love. The differently shaped listeners, who listen without love, send the speaker to prison, to Somalia, to the concentration camp and elsewhere.