You guys are so misunderstanding this place..

[Truth Addict]

@Bill W

The problem with people here is that they keep forcing themselves and their opinions and advice on others.

They believe that they should change you or convince you. It's a subtle and neurotic kind of control.

You ask them to stop, and they keep preaching to you.

If you say you don't need their help, they will say you're arrogant, closed-minded, ignorant, or a liar. Or they will think so, and treat you accordingly.

They think they know everything about you, but it's all their own projections.

They keep telling you that you have a lot of inner work to do, while in fact they are the ones who need it the most.

Interesting things, of course. Been there, done that. That's why I know what I know. And I petty them.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Bill W]

6 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@Bill W

The problem with people here is that they keep forcing themselves and their opinions and advice on others.

They believe that they should change you or convince you. It's a subtle and neurotic kind of control.

You ask them to stop, and they keep preaching to you.

If you say you don't need their help, they will say you're arrogant, closed-minded, ignorant, or a liar. Or they will think so, and treat you accordingly.

They think they know everything about you, but it's all their own projections.

They keep telling you that you have a lot of inner work to do, while in fact they are the ones who need it the most.

Interesting things, of course. Been there, done that. That's why I know what I know. And I petty them.

I hear you! I do. But if you ask someone to stop or change tact and they don't, you are then vulnerable as you have potentially already mentally started "rallying the troops" and drawn a line in the sand. This is not to say we need to be a door mat and just roll over passively. But if you can walk away, stay truly humble, you can begin to transcend the animal instinct. Leave the other person in the dust. Let the other person sort out the mess. It's not your mess. 

Go to battle and "win"? The victory will be short lived as sure as shit, the pattern will repeat. Some other provocation will appear.

Not preaching honest but how about the serenity prayer here? 

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

[Truth Addict]

@Bill W

Well, here's the thing, and thank you for the sweet talk:

Bringing awareness to the things that others are denying is the way to cure them.

I can only show them the way, and how they are going wrong. But really, it's all up to them how they are going to react. Awareness always helps, sometimes immediately, and some other times later.

[DrewNows]

@Truth Addict is there a difference between pushing someone out of your life and driving them away? 

y’alls discussion brings up thoughts about my relationship with my father 

[Truth Addict]

@DrewNows

Frankly, I don't understand the question quite well.

[DrewNows]

1 minute ago, Truth Addict said:

@DrewNows

Frankly, I don't understand the question quite well.

Okay what I mean is, once I recognize someone is toxic in our relationship, I can either tell them to get lost or I can create healthy boundaries and if they aren’t “okay” with my new behaviors then they will be forced to change or leave the relationship 

not specifically speaking of intimate relationships but relationships in general 

[Truth Addict]

@DrewNows

I would never tell someone who loves me to get lost. I might tell them that I need space and some time alone, but that's about it.

Regarding haters (I don't know a better term ?), I would give them the list of choices, and they should pick what they see fit. If they fail to give me what I want, I would cut them off immediately with all the power I have. If I fail, I would eventually have to accept their toxins until I can either cure them or get rid of them. You can change people in long term relationships, but in cases like occasional encounters, I would find a way to stop them immediately, could be love, power, fear, jokes, whatever.

[DrewNows]

33 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@DrewNows

I would never tell someone who loves me to get lost. I might tell them that I need space and some time alone, but that's about it.

Regarding haters (I don't know a better term ?), I would give them the list of choices, and they should pick what they see fit. If they fail to give me what I want, I would cut them off immediately with all the power I have. If I fail, I would eventually have to accept their toxins until I can either cure them or get rid of them. You can change people in long term relationships, but in cases like occasional encounters, I would find a way to stop them immediately, could be love, power, fear, jokes, whatever.

People are generally going to "love" their projection of you. But what happens when you grow and are no longer a person congruent with their expectations? Generally they will try to remold you or they will be forced to change their projection. When they are unwilling to do this and you don't allow them to remold you, then they will be forced to walk out of your life. Toxicity leaves your life the second you stop giving it attention. 

In certain situations, your boundaries may not be respected, or in my case, i didnt respect someone's boundaries, therefore they or i must be cut off 

 

[Truth Addict]

@DrewNows I disagree.

Toxicity is real. It's like trauma. Toxic people cause traumatic events, willingly or unwillingly.

You can become fluid and take all the hits, but you will lose your self in the process. You will put others before yourself, and that will lead you to some very bad places. That's fine if it's your only choice, though. You certainly can maintain peace with that.

That's not ego annihilation, but rather killing your self-esteem.

If you have a choice, then lose the toxins already, and live like you want to live.

Usually someone like the parents will only treat you as an adult only if you show them that you've grown up, and that you're now aware and responsible.

I, for example, used to have a lot of problems with my parents until I proved to them that I am not a kid anymore, and that I am independent of them. They started respecting me afterwards, and I started to have an effect on them. While before, it was impossible to change them even a little bit, because they would never take me seriously.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Truth Addict

[DrewNows]

@Truth AddictFriends who "love" us actually love their projections of us. What are you saying? Are you saying we don't play a part in the toxicity of others? 

Trauma is what causes fragmentation and toxicity. Sure we can be ignorantly fluid in life but if you can't see our own role in allowing toxicity, it will continue to find us. 

14 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

I, for example, used to have a lot of problems with my parents until I proved to them that I am not a kid anymore, and that I am independent of them. They started respecting me afterwards, and I started to have an effect on them. While before, it was impossible to change them even a little bit, because they would never take me seriously.

yeah sure but why did you have to take them seriously if they wouldn't take you seriously? The problems you had with your parents were "your" problems and this is because of the dynamic you used to have as a kid

[Truth Addict]

5 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

@Truth AddictFriends who "love" us actually love their projections of us. What are you saying? Are you saying we don't play a part in the toxicity of others?

Parental love for instance is beyond projections. And so is the love of many people. They don't love their projections of us, but rather they project their love onto us. Because love is the fundamental thing, not projection.

20 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

Trauma is what causes fragmentation and toxicity. Sure we can be ignorantly fluid in life but if you can't see our own role in allowing toxicity, it will continue to find us. 

?

Of course, awareness is essential. And playing the victim is the worst thing to do.

22 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

yeah sure but why did you have to take them seriously if they wouldn't take you seriously? The problems you had with your parents were "your" problems and this is because of the dynamic you used to have as a kid

I live with them.

[CreamCat]

3 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

The problem with people here is that they keep forcing themselves and their opinions and advice on others.

They believe that they should change you or convince you. It's a subtle and neurotic kind of control.

You ask them to stop, and they keep preaching to you.

I see that kind of behavior from some people on this forum. They use shaming tactics to manipulate others. However, they are just annoying and not really convincing. They are bad at changing people's mind.

When they pretend to be advanced students and teach others, it's apparent to me that they are not advanced. I can see that they are not actually helping people but are here to advance their personal agendas.

They may be able to fool little children, but not fully-grown adults.

Since no one is going to keep them in check, either they are going to grow up someday, or death will wake them up. I bet that the latter is more likely to happen.

Edited May 25, 2019 by CreamCat

[DrewNows]

10 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Parental love for instance is beyond projections. And so is the love of many people. They don't love their projections of us, but rather they project their love onto us. Because love is the fundamental thing, not projection.

Interesting, what does projected love look like? I mean of course it's obvious everything is love disguised but im not sure i understand, maybe you refer to parental love as "always" being unconditional?  

some parents/people don't understand any kind of love that goes beyond selfish love (what you mean for me) and other people/parents may have selfless love where they create a dynamic to be easily taken advantage of because all their attention is on you. 

[Truth Addict]

@DrewNows I don't know.

It's the vibe and energy that I feel from people. I can clearly see the love. It's obvious.

I think it happened when I stopped judging people and started accepting them for who they are.

I am in tune with love, I guess.

[DrewNows]

13 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

It's the vibe and energy that I feel from people. I can clearly see the love. It's obvious.

I think it happened when I stopped judging people and started accepting them for who they are.

I am in tune with love, I guess.

Sure this is great but it seems you still do judge if you can identify toxicity and try to change others.

Anyways it's all good man i am simply enjoying this discussion and I find it extremely difficult to notice when there are aspects still in the shadow 

Edited May 25, 2019 by DrewNows

[Truth Addict]

@DrewNows

Good point.

I don't judge on the emotional level, I don't hate others. But I still judge on the intellectual level.

Both of which are necessary for my inner peace and well being. Or else I would hurt myself and others.

Changing others if being done with good intentions, is also necessary for my well being.

There is judgement, there is a desire to change others. But there is no resistance/suffering/conflict accompanied with them.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Truth Addict

[DrewNows]

11 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

There is judgement, there is a desire to change others. But there is no resistance/suffering/conflict accompanied with them.

Cool. So the desire is isn’t selfish but arises spontaneously and acts indifferently? 

[Truth Addict]

@DrewNows

Desire is not selfish or selfless, it's just desire. It arises spontaneously creating a disturbance which is energy that moves me to fulfill the desire which in turn means the death of that desire and getting back to peace and stillness.

In a sense, it's all selfish since it's all happening for me.

But in another sense, it's all selfless since I don't really have a say in it.

So, it's both and neither.

Desire is ego, but it does not necessarily have to create suffering.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Truth Addict

[DrewNows]

@Truth Addict but with a strong desire theres normally co-arising fear of failure and this often leads to suffering 

[Truth Addict]

@DrewNows 

There can be a fear of failure, that's normal and actually necessary.

Resistance, however, is the cause of suffering. Resistance is the dissection of the one stream that is you, into two opposite poles, reality vs. imagination. There is something (reality), but you imagine something else and want it to replace the reality. That is the source of suffering. Obviously, you can still use imagination and play with it however you like without suffering, because you won't be resisting reality or clinging to imagination. You can acknowledge that imagination is just imagination and let it be without clinging to it.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Truth Addict