"Leo, but what if you're deluded?"

[Shadowraix]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

This doesn't make sense.  This is having it both ways Leo.  You can't have this both ways.  The Tao that can be named is not the Eternal Tao. But you're naming it.  You're making lots of very clear and distinct statements about it.

Mental scaffolding ?

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

This doesn't make sense.  This is having it both ways Leo.  You can't have this both ways.  The Tao that can be named is not the Eternal Tao. But you're naming it.  You're making lots of very clear and distinct statements about it.

Haha. Of course!

It cannot be otherwise. You must stop looking at the finger and look at the moon. You are still operating at the literally symoblic level, confusing map with the territory.

The Tao that can be named is not the Eternal Tao. And yet we still call it the Tao and write books about it.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

This sounds like a far fetched thesis Leo.  I hope for your sake you're right.  I worry for you.

It's not a thesis. It's Absolute Truth!

See, the reason you have a hard time accepting this is because you still hold Truth as a mental thing. It isn't. If it's a mental thing, it isn't Absolute Truth. Once Truth stops being a mental/conceptual thing for you, once you BECOME THE TRUTH, there cannot be any more doubt, because doubt is a mental thing.

Doubt is actually fear and delusion.

God does not doubt itself. Other than via the devils it creates. It's the devil who doubts.

[abrakamowse]

@Rilles you have the popcorn and I chose the movie...

[Truth Addict]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

And why are you the only person in the world who's had access to this Absolute Truth so far in the history of mankind?

Because God told him.

[arlin]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

And why are you the only person in the world who's had access to this Absolute Truth so far in the history of mankind?  Doesn't that raise a few red flags?

Lol, When did he say that?

[abrakamowse]

I am God too

[ajasatya]

@Leo Gura people think that you're speaking from a logical framework in which falsity exists.

they think that you're talking about an idea or a model. no manifestation of GOD can prevent GOD from forgetting what IT is. it's a movement with an inertia that's too powerful.

Edited May 22, 2019 by ajasatya

[Truth Addict]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

And why are you the only person in the world who's had access to this Absolute Truth so far in the history of mankind?  Doesn't that raise a few red flags?

Have you forgotten @Highest and @Conrad?

[Scholar]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

Does that sound like the old Leo from 4 years ago?  It sounds like the opposite. 

It's a joke. It wouldn't be funny if you saw. 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

And why are you the only person in the world who's had access to this Absolute Truth so far in the history of mankind?  Doesn't that raise a few red flags?

Why are you saying this?

Have you not studied the hundreds of awakened one who accessed and spoke of the Absolute?

I expect you to be beyond such unstudied objections.

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

He's not saying it's mental scaffolding.  We already settled that.  

Every word that comes out of my mouth is mental scaffolding.

But beyond that is Absolute Truth.

It I cannot speak because I am it.

No one can ever speak Absolute Truth, they can merely point to it.

My teachings are "true" in the sense that they do a decent job of pointing you towards Absolute Truth. But they are not it. But also they are!

That is the divine paradox. You should expect a strange loop here due to the self-reference problem.

Since you ARE the Absolute Truth, you cannot think it or speak it. Absolute Truth is prior to thought or speech, yet it is also not separate from them. Because Absolute Truth is total ONENESS.

[Truth Addict]

4 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

@Leo Gura people think that you're speaking from a logical framework in which falsity exists.

they think that you're talking about an idea or a model. no manifestation of GOD can't prevent GOD from forgetting what IT. it's a movement with an inertia that's too powerful.

I don't care if Leo has actually had direct consciousness of God or not.

All I'm saying is that he's blending the map and the territory together, knowingly or unknowingly, but is still calling his maps the territory. Or so it seems from my point of view.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Truth Addict said:

I don't care if Leo has actually had direct insights into God or not.

All I'm saying is that he's blending the map and the territory together, knowingly or unknowingly, but is still calling his maps the territory. Or so it seems from my point of view.

No matter what he would say, he would blend the map with the territory. What is "The truth cannot be communicated" but a map?

[Truth Addict]

Just now, Scholar said:

No matter what he would say, he would blend the map with the territory. What is "The truth cannot be communicated" but a map?

Tell that to Leo and his sincere followers.

[Truth Addict]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What about all the detailed statements you make about Absolute Truth in your videos.  Are those just mental scaffolding, yes or no?

Finger pointing to the moon 

[arlin]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What about all the detailed statements you make about Absolute Truth in your videos.  Are those just mental scaffolding, yes or no?

You believe that the deailed statements that he makes and that he calls them just "pointers"  are to you a contraddiction?

Edited May 22, 2019 by arlin

[ajasatya]

@Truth Addict each manifestation of GOD has its own map, for which there is no territory! all that exists are maps! (this is also a tiny display of the power of GOD)

GOD, when conscious of Itself and embodied as a human being, will speak from the perspective of the map perceived by the "individual experience" because that's all that can be said. this is why enlightened beings have particular ways of teaching.

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

But you've made numerous and specific claims about the Absolute that not everybody who has claimed to "know" the Absolute has made or endorsed by any measure.  Most people believe that Truth cannot be expressed in words.  You've used a lot of words to describe Truth very specifically.  Surely this is not some cannonical Absolute Truth that you're talking about -- this is your version of it, your twist on it.   Wouldn't you agree?

Like I said above, the mind will understand and speak of the Absolute in a thousand different ways depending on culture, era, brain type, personality type, past lives, genetics, language, etc. You must distinguish the Absolute itself from anything said about it. Anything said about it is always poetic, we might say. There is no one right or wrong type of poetry. Although some types are "higher" or more "truthful" than others. Not all poetry is equally good or equally effective at pointing out the Absolute.

Which poetry you prefer will be relative to your mind, your ego, and your needs. If you are an atheist, poetry about God will not inspire you to discover the Absolute. You will prefer more scientific like maps and models. So when I speak of God, that turns a lot of atheistically-minded people off. But this cannot really be avoided since what they refuse to admit is God. And God is the most accurate word for it.

Also keep in mind that there are many facets and degrees of depth to the Absolute. So not every awakened person has realized all the facets and degrees. So they may speak of one facet but not the other. This problem is called the 5 Blind Men And The Elephant (google it). Very, very few people have seen the entire elephant fully.

[Truth Addict]

Just now, ajasatya said:

@Truth Addict each manifestation of GOD has its own map, for which there is no territory! all that exists are maps! (this is also a tiny display of the power of GOD)

GOD, when conscious of Itself and embodied as a human being, will speak from the perspective of the map perceived by the "individual experience" because that's all that can be said. this is why enlightened beings have particular ways of teaching.

Yes exactly! That's what I'm saying.

But Leo's followers are still refusing: don't you dare to speak unless you do 20 years of enlightenment work. That's preposterous, Leo hasn't even done 10 years.