"Leo, but what if you're deluded?"

[Aeris]

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Yeah there's a place of not knowing -- it's called being in a coffin 6 feet in the ground.

ho no, you can litteraly loose your mind, take a lot of drug until the brain doesn't work, and do the same thing you ever did.

tada, not knowing. I mean, for me that was surely on some part of a trip, not always, didn't embody this everyday at every moment, doesn't believe you can do that.

what you still know ? smoke and take more drugs, as long as you cling to an idea of you of an idea of knowing consciously what you do.

did you ever experienced dementia  ? I could have litteraly loose my minds months ago.

not knowing can be known as the "flow" for artist, you can contemplate this more by drawing.

if you 100% embody the idea that you are alone, no one exist, you're god and all that, you experience a litteral shift in brain/mind, whatever, you really don't know, it's like your all thinking crumble to ashes, your own brain looks like a total bs story of shit

 it doesn't make sense, litteraly, reality is a giant shit load, so then, you awake on the fact that everyone is living on a island of shit

 

I m writting and still cling to the idea that things are, but in reality, writting, not writting, bvlablabalabalabala

 

simple, in drawing, you have both side : one you try to do something you know, the others is you don't know, so you just draw.

you can do that for everything I suppose, sort of

Edited May 22, 2019 by Aeris

[Truth Addict]

@Shin That's right, I love Actualized.org and I want it to become even better, I care if Leo becomes dogmatic precisely because he is a very great teacher and he'd helped to break out of dogma. Who are these other teachers you're talking about? I don't know anyone who can compete with Leo.

@Shaun Incarnation is a belief. Are you experiencing all of those thoughts right now in reality? The truth is the present moment, that's all you can know for sure, everything else is a story, a belief. I assure you, you're safe my friend.

@arlin Well, here's the thing about mystical experiences: they're true while they are happening, but when they're over, they become stories and fantasies. Now that's a fact. Also, keep in mind that you don't know anything about Leo except what he says, he might be making all of this shit up, I don't take his words for granted. I can agree that God is prior to proof and reason, but I'm not sure that applies to the point of creation, or in other words, why is there form in the first place? And why am I experiencing this exact human life? Absolute Infinity doesn't make much sense for me, since I'm only experiencing this limited life. I may not have had any mystical experiences, but who said that they qualify as Truth? Leo said that, of course.

 

[Leo Gura]

@Truth Addict Hahaha!

I've told you many times. Verify everything I say.

The reason you're not understamding what I said is because you have not reached those levels of consciousness because you aren't doing the practices seriously enough and you are not studying the books seriously enough.

It's just that simple.

Stay openminded. Don't let the religious language fool you.

You will eventually discover that Truth and the good life are identical.

There will come a point in your growth when your understanding will be so deep you will sound like a madman to others. They will not be able to know how you know the things you know. And yet you will possess the highest Truth. And no one will understand you nor will you be able to explain yourself. And so it must be. Because by that point you will have done 10-20 years of work which no one else is willing to do.

P.S. Watch your projections.

[arlin]

8 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Well, here's the thing about mystical experiences: they're true while they are happening, but when they're over, they become stories and fantasies. Now that's a fact. Also, keep in mind that you don't know anything about Leo except what he says, he might be making all of this shit up, I don't take his words for granted. I can agree that God is prior to proof and reason, but I'm not sure that applies to the point of creation, or in other words, why is there form in the first place? And why am I experiencing this exact human life? Absolute Infinity doesn't make much sense for me, since I'm only experiencing this limited life. I may not have had any mystical experiences, but who said that they qualify as Truth? Leo said that, of course.

Yes, i like your objections. They make sense. I don't take everything for granted either, i question everything. I don't care who says it. 

I think experiences hold value though, more than concepts about truth. But i have a lot to study to reach signficant understanding about this.

Leo has studied those things for years now, and had incredible experiences. 

If he says something, i don't take it as absolute truth because of course i did not verify it for myself, but at least i take it as a valid consideration to as what truth can be.

Because he studied the shit out of this things, and i am incredibly ignorant, who am i to say otherwise?

So who are you to say otherwise @Truth Addict ?

[Shin]

10 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@Shin That's right, I love Actualized.org and I want it to become even better, I care if Leo becomes dogmatic precisely because he is a very great teacher and he'd helped to break out of dogma. Who are these other teachers you're talking about? I don't know anyone who can compete with Leo.

@Shaun

 

 

• Sadhguru
• Byron Katie
• Adyashanti
• Eckhart Tolle
• Shinzen Young
• Matt Kahn
• Mooji

And many other that I forgot to mentioned + all the teachers that are dead.
And that's just for teachings about enlightenment.

If tomorrow Leo dies, it would only be a big deal because of attachment,
It wouldn't be a real loss, because all of what he's talking about can be found somewhere else.
Of course it won't be said in the same manner, you may not resonate as much, but still, everything you need to grow is out there.

[cetus]

@Truth Addict You really need to have a direct experience of Truth before you can even say what is truth. Without the direct experience it's all just stories and hear say. You'll fine it sooner or later. And when you do you'll say "Oh now I see what they're talking about".

 

[Truth Addict]

@tsuki I agree ? but I still don't want Leo to become a preacher. What I want though, is for Actualized.org to return back to relativity and multiple perspectives approach, not the one true perspective based on Leo's experiences, contemplations, and studies, whatever that means. I think Joseph took care of the rest quite well, but I'd like to add that I don't mind listening to beliefs as long as Leo is explicit about it. It's a psychological trick to tell people that I have the absolute truth and then tell them to verify for themselves, most people will believe it unconsciously, and that's what had happened, so here we are, see how much dogma going on here on the forum.

[Truth Addict]

@Leo Gura Nothing you say can ever be verified, it's preposterous. What is a memory's worth? All there is is the present moment, in its various degrees of awareness. All of those stories you say are beliefs, let's just be honest about that. I am watching my projections, but I'm not suppressing them.

@cetus56 And why did that objection come up just now after I mentioned that I didn't have any mystical experiences? It seems like my posts made sense until you found out that I'm not the mystical guy.

[dinone]

Interesting to read all of your perspectives.

[bejapuskas]

@Leo Gura  If someone has such a deep understanding, why would they just talk about it in a nonsensical way, why not just move onto something more meaningful? 

@Truth Addict  When I was 4 years old, I wanted Baby Jesus to give me a huge drill, that could dig a hole all the way to Australia from my garden as a Christmas present.

[Truth Addict]

@arlin How do you know that Leo has even read a single book in his life? What if he was just the face of Actualized.org? What if it was a big organisation that has many religious teachers who tell Leo what to say? You see? All you know about Actualized.org is what Leo told you. I might say that I am an enlightened master and that I have meditated for 30 years and read hundreds of books, but you won't beleive me.

@Shin Are you kidding? Not a single teacher on your list compares to Leo. I'm talking about stage Yellow multi-perspective teachings, not just enlightenment. Actualized.org is so great that I can't even buy it that it's all Leo and no one else. That's some crazy shit!

 

[dinone]

5 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

All of those stories you say are beliefs

Why are you triggered with other persons beliefs?

You have a belief that his stories are beliefs?

[arlin]

6 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

How do you know that Leo has even read a single book in his life? What if he was just the face of Actualized.org? What if it was a big organisation that has many religious teachers who tell Leo what to say? You see? All you know about Actualized.org is what Leo told you. I might say that I am an enlightened master and that I have meditated for 30 years and read hundreds of books, but you won't beleive me.

You say this as if what leo says to you has signficant influence on your life.

I don't allow anybody to have significant influence in my life unless i have proven what he says to myself.

Since then, what he says remains in my list of " What truth could be ".

I don't care if he is part of organizations or what,  i can use my logic to understand that what he says is coherent and makes sense. I also study other teachers as well.

@Truth Addict To draw this kind of conclusions means that all the world is against you. For me personally, i like to consider the world a place where people want to share and learn, rather than a place when people use everything they can to fuck you up. 

[tsuki]

20 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@tsuki I agree ? but I still don't want Leo to become a preacher. What I want though, is for Actualized.org to return back to relativity and multiple perspectives approach, not the one true perspective based on Leo's experiences, contemplations, and studies, whatever that means. I think Joseph took care of the rest quite well, but I'd like to add that I don't mind listening to beliefs as long as Leo is explicit about it. It's a psychological trick to tell people that I have the absolute truth and then tell them to verify for themselves, most people will believe it unconsciously, and that's what had happened, so here we are, see how much dogma going on here on the forum.

There is a difference between a preacher and a mystic. Preacher is a mouthpiece for ideology, while a mystic is the source around which an ideology is built. Any sufficiently advanced individual will seem like a preacher, there is no avoiding it.

When it comes to consciousness work, there is no way of confirming whether another person is legitimate or not by judging what he says. There should also be no need for that. I think that Leo's videos should be treated more as a fuel for creativity or inspiration than imply knowledge to be believed. I don't know if it's me or you, but I'm sensing a green sentiment from you, about relativity and caring for other people. It's not like I'm shaming you for it, it's just that Yellow has a way of finding truth and having strong convictions that do not stand in opposition to others. Leo's stories are like that if you pay close attention.

That being said, I really think that Leo is coping out. The criticism he's not properly addressing right now is the ego backlash he's facing for growing too rapidly. if he chose to bow down to peasant us, the whole forum could grow alongside him. I think it's a shame really.

[mandyjw]

@tsuki Maybe he is lost for words.

[tsuki]

18 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Oh come on.  tsuki, I know you got more in you than this.  I wanna see tsuki face down some real adversity.  I wanna test your manhood.

What's in it for me?

[Leo Gura]

59 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Nothing you say can ever be verified, it's preposterous.

Not with that attitude.

There can be no access to Truth without radical openmindedness.

The things I talk about are extremely advanced. Do not make a mockery of these teachings with simplistic expectations. You mind will absolutely not be able to warp itself around the Truth.

I've told you guys many times the importance and trickeries of epistemology.

You don't know what you don't know. You don't know what you can or cannot know. Hence the wisest course of action would be remain radically open and tread carefully.

Just because you disagree with the things I say does not make them false. There is also the possibility that your ability to discern truth from falsehood is corrupted by ego and lack of consciousness such that when you hear the highest truths they will sound preposterous to you. Precisely because that's what serves your survival and maintains your imaginary worldview.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

How did your truth become the Truth?

It both is and isn't mine.

Truth is what I am. Truth is the only thing that exists.

See, the problem here is, you guys speak of "truth" but you don't actually have a direct consciousness of what "truth" is. You confuse it with conceptual constructions, ideas, models, and beliefs. Absolute Truth is none of that. And yet also all of that.

Discover for yourselves. No degree of believing me will be Absolute Truth.

[arlin]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I've told you guys many times the importance and trickeries of epistemology.

I think this is key to understanding what you are talking about leo.

Making a video about this does not sound bad. Or is there already ?

[Truth Addict]

@dinone I am not triggered, how would you know that I am? And yes, there's no difference between belief and reality, but Leo does not want to admit that, although I think he knows it.

@Winter I'm not screaming, I'm sitting very comfortably and expressing my opinions freely without suppresion. The whole paradigm is flawed, it's not about proper proof. It's like saying that God wears pink panties because they're more comfortable.