"Leo, but what if you're deluded?"

[Truth Addict]

I'm really disappointed after watching "What Is The Point Of Life?" episode. I didn't really expect to find real tangible answers in there, but unfortunately, it felt pretty much like stage Blue brainwashing.

Usually the objections part is the most interesting to me, this time it was just a waste of my time.

You know what, Leo? If I wanted a belief system, I would have found one already or had created one on my own.

How do you expect me to take your teachings when you're the one who taught me how to detect beliefs?

You're talking about the point of the whole fucking life, and then when you fail to prove that what you suggest is true, you just say: "well, what's your alternative?" Really?!! Is that how it works? Really?!!

"So, the way you can test whether what I'm saying is deluded is: try it for yourself, live your life as a creator, as though you were God, and see if that doesn't improve your life dramatically".

What about the truth, Leo? What about the truth?

Since when "improving" our lives has become THE criterion for Truth?

Are you aware that this explanation is just your beliefs and that you're projecting them onto everyone else? Because if you're not, then I'll be even more disappointed.

At least the original founders of religions were honest that their teachings are merely beliefs. Do you really believe that you're above beliefs? Or are you playing tricks on us?

This direction Leo is heading with his content is not Turquoise, but rather a regression to Blue, at least from my point of view. Not that Blue is bad or anything, but that Leo is projecting and is not being honest with us/himself. If you want Blue Leo, go ahead, I support you. Just be honest with me.

Turquoise is not about manipulating beliefs and/or tricking others into believing them, but rather about being honest about what is, which is that these teachings are merely Leo's beliefs, not the truth.

If you think it's Turquoise, then here's my answer in advance: Osho failed to build a real life Turquoise community, and you think you can build an online one? I fail to see how you're going to guarantee that even 1% of your followers will ever get there.

So, just to conclude and clearly state my objections:

• Leo telling us to verify what he says does not justify him considering it The one true absolute perspective. He's either not aware, or lying to us. And I don't like both options.
• My alternative is to honestly admit that we don't know, and that all we can do is guessing and believing. I'm not saying beliefs are bad or wrong or anything like that, I myself am a believer, the problem though comes when we're not honest about that, and then try to cover our beliefs up with statements like: "God told me".

.....

I'm done here.

This thread might seem like a rant, but it's merely an expression of my disappointment, and it's my honest opinion.

I still love Leo and his videos, I just don't want Actualized.org to go in that direction, because we already have plenty of Blue.

Sure, it's leo's work and organisation, but also this is my feedback.

I want more Yellow; more nuanced, more thoughtful content. And I don't think it's possible to build a Turquoise community through the internet, at least not right now.

I'd also like to hear other opinions, because I don't want to be missing something and just blindly criticising.

.....

Either all that, or everything I said is wrong and I am deluded and I don't know.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Truth Addict

[isness is my bizness]

The whole point of life, is to point out the whole point of life. 
But seriously,if someone tells me what the whole point of life is, that kinda ruins the mystery. I thought the whole point was to snort caine' and bust nutz like a rock star,

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by isness is my bizness

[mandyjw]

@Truth Addict Sometimes, you just know. Sometimes, the eyes staring back at you are your own. You won't help me build my sand castle? Do you think I'm deluded? Do you love me? 

 

 

[tsuki]

Didn't watch the video yet, but from what you wrote it seems like you are not the target audience of this video.
If blue is responsive only to ideology, then you need to use ideology to get them out of it.
The belief that ideology is inherently wrong is an ideology in itself. 

While I also find some of Leo's ideological content a little disgusting - we shouldn't underestimate the fact that Leo's livelihood is dependent on his teachings. He cannot afford to be completely turquoise with his audience because that would make him too obscure. I suppose that's the cost of making a living off teaching a varied audience.

Of course, since I didn't watch the video yet, I may be talking nonsense.

[ajasatya]

@Truth Addict here are some signals of delusion:

• you become too bothered about what people - leo included - believe/say
• your ability to enjoy life and love people gets thrown off by your eccentricism
• you're unable to experience peace of mind because you're thinking too hard about spirituality/metaphysics
• you can't overcome the dependence on the wisdom of others
• you can't overcome the dependence on the use of substances that facilitate the shutdown of the mind chattering
• you become attached to certain ideologies

Edited May 22, 2019 by ajasatya

[ajasatya]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Are you aware of your bias ever?

yes. by "yes" i mean i know that i can't speak the absolute truth. i can only share what has led me to a increasingly better experience of life.

Edited May 22, 2019 by ajasatya

[Aeris]

No turquoise indeed.

But coral tho is close to red.

And don't Guess what teal is about. I m not sure myself and truly don't give a fuck

[Yonkon]

Aren't this discussions ultimately pointless? Every time i visit this forum i know it's a distraction. Nobody can help you really to find what you are searching for, so why bother arguing about theories at all? Why not take Leo's video as motivation to find out for yourself, not analyzing and deconstructing his worldview and his ego.

[Aeris]

Just now, Yonkon said:

Aren't this discussions ultimately pointless? Every time i visit this forum i know it's a distraction. Nobody can help you really to find what you are searching for, so why bother arguing about theories at all? Why not take Leo's video as motivation to find out for yourself, not analyzing and deconstructing his worldview and his ego.

Indeed but you can find value from all materials even crooked ideas.

Dépend of YOU

[bejapuskas]

1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

How do you expect me to take your teachings when you're the one who taught me how to detect beliefs?

Leo often says, that you have to do the work - you cannot articulate the Truth, Leo can't just feed you with God - and he has mentioned many times, that we have to question him.

1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

You're talking about the point of the whole fucking life, and then when you fail to prove that what you suggest is true, you just say: "well, what's your alternative?" Really?!! Is that how it works? Really?!!

Did you actually try to come up with something better than this, or are you just ranting mindlessly?

1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

This direction Leo is heading with his content is not Turquoise, but rather a regression to Blue, at least from my point of view. Not that Blue is bad or anything, but that Leo is projecting and is not being honest with us/himself. If you want Blue Leo, go ahead, I support you. Just be honest with me.

Maybe you are just trying to prove yourself, that you are seeing this from a yellow perspective, when you actually are limited to the provable knowledge of orange, which cannot grasp the Infinite, because if something proves the Infinite, that means, that the Infinite is not Infinite.

1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

If you think it's Turquoise, then here's my answer in advance: Osho failed to build a real life Turquoise community, and you think you can build an online one? I fail to see how you're going to guarantee that even 1% of your followers will ever get there.

As a teacher, I have to say, that you basically cannot guarantee any progress from your students, they have to do the work themselves. You can't just grab their minds and do the work for them, you can just point, dispel. 

1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

• My alternative is to honestly admit that we don't know, and that all we can do is guessing and believing. I'm not saying beliefs are bad or wrong or anything like that, I myself am a believer, the problem though comes when we're not honest about that, and then try to cover our beliefs up with statements like: "God told me".

Yeh sure, you have your own alternative, but observe yourself more, you are basically debating here, you are also trying to prove your beliefs. 

Can you guess and believe without thoughts?

[Yonkon]

9 minutes ago, Aeris said:

Indeed but you can find value from all materials even crooked ideas.

Dépend of YOU

This is true, i found some value on this forum for myself. But this value was rarely found between metaphysical discussions. I also think that if i would have invested the time in contemplation, i would got bigger gains.

 

9 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

No because we're here to do personal development work.  We're here to converse and to learn from each other not just pat each other on the back and accept each other.  That feminine approach only goes so far.  The masculine voice of criticism is needed too for personal development work.

Criticism and discussion has it's merit, but imagine if you would take all the hours that one invested in discussion and critizing other peoples ideas and beliefs and would invest them in focusing this masculine criticism on oneself, on ones own beliefs and blind spots. I think the result would be radical.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Yonkon

[Truth Addict]

@isness is my bizness Well, you're still assuming that there is a point to life. What if there wasn't? Then again, what if there was, but is not accessible to us?

@mandyjw What? Love certainly prevails, but Truth and Love go hand in hand. If I see you deluding yourself, I will confront you, like I'm doing here.

@tsuki Leo believes that he can't convince stage Blue closed-minded people of spirituality (as he stated many times here on the forum). I don't think he's targeting them, but perhaps he's targeting Orange. His livelihood is not entirely dependent on YouTube, I don't think YT constitutes more than 20-30% of his income. My point was that Why is he afraid of saying that his teachings are his thoughts and beliefs? Why does he confirm all the time that they're the absolute truth? I think he can admit that, and still keep his audience.

[Truth Addict]

@ajasatya Or in other words, a human being with some observations. I don't have to specifically be any of the items you mentioned, I am just stating my feelings and thoughts here, but thank you though for the reminders, I'll make sure I check them all.

@Yonkon I think Joseph answered better than I would.

@bejapuskas How did you come up with all those conclusions about me? Are you aware that you might just be defending Leo's position? Please, read my thread again, and don't skip parts.

[Arnold666]

@Yonkon Amen.

[ajasatya]

2 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

I don't have to specifically be any of the items you mentioned, I am just stating my feelings and thoughts here

yes. i only said what i said because you seemed concerned about this whole "am i deluded?" issue. those are mistakes that i made in my own journey, thus it's very unlikely that all of them will resonate with you.

[bejapuskas]

@Truth Addict  Yeh, keep defending yourself  

[Truth Addict]

@Joseph Maynor I totally agree with everything you said ? I want more Yellow content.

@Aeris @Yonkon Criticism and feedback are always useful, it's a matter of accepting or rejecting them in the first place. I said what I said because I think it can improve Leo's content, he's absolutely free to take it or leave it.

 

[Truth Addict]

@bejapuskas I'm not defending anything, it's just my honest opinion, obviously not the absolute truth. I wish Leo could say the same about his teachings.

@ajasatya I understand. Thank you again ❤️?

[isness is my bizness]

@Truth Addict  The "whole point of life" thing was me just jokingly pointing out the near absurdity of "knowing" the point of life.
My useless opinion is that "The point" is whatever we make it to be,otherwise there is no point. Life doesn't need a reason to BE.

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by isness is my bizness

[DnoReally]

Why do you people talk so much theory shit? Have you still not understood? This forum is like a weak ass reality tv show