Leo Gura is creating a modern Religion - knowingly or unknowingly

[Preetom]

This came up as an afterthought of watching Leos latest video on the point of life.

This whole "understanding all of reality" theme of Leo is not something new or out of blue as many people take it.

What is religion but an attempt to express "understanding all of reality" in it's own historical time and place?

For an average Muslim, the Quran represents "understanding all of reality". For a Christian, the Bible represents "understanding all of reality", so on and so forth.

Leo is translating and expressing the same spiritual realization with modern metaphors, symbols and educated speculations. Aka a modern religion. Any prophet/spiritual teacher who ever attempted to do it, created a religion knowingly or unknowingly.

This marks the clear distinction between actual spiritual realization and religion. 

Whereas a genuine realization itself is the absolute, religion has to inherently come with an implicit set of morality, value hierarchcy, context, missionary themes, prophets and holy books or theories regarded as "understanding all of reality" just to talk about it.

Why am i saying all this? As a reminder of the limitation of religion. Gurdjiff used to say which Leo mentioned as well in his video "the staggering depth of your unawareness" that pursuing Awareness is the most serious business there is. And the biggest problem in this business is almost all people take it for granted to possess something already which they don't have at all. How can one want to pursue awareness if one thinks he already have it?

So basically the trap of religion is Jesus did it for me, Leo Gura understood and explained all of reality for me. Now I can pretend and create a false sense of spirituality in my life by adhering to these prophets and their messages, while actually my fate is being sealed to remain as a deluded pig once and for all who will never engage in an original investigation or pursuit most likely.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Preetom

[arlin]

Damn so mindfucking.

[Aeris]

the better question is ,

what makes a religion/dogma

[Inliytened1]

@Preetom  Religion mistakes the map for the territory.

That's the difference.

Then they turn the map into their own territory.

Therefore THiS is not a religion.  

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Inliytened1

[seeking_brilliance]

@Preetom maybe it's not for you.  If it does become religion it could still be preached hundred of years from now and by then we have evolved a little bit more to transcend the (false) need for religion and find true effortless spirituality.  The religion becomes a necessary evil, just as Christianity has.

[Inliytened1]

Have to remember that when you Awaken you discover you were Leo the whole time.

There really is no Leo or Leo's teachings.

There is only One.

 

[tenta]

It's not a religion but it's a collective ego.

[arlin]

If it would become a religion this means that we have to stick to some rules and i think this is contrary to what actualized.org is trying to promote, which is to be open minded. It would be a contradiction. 

[Rilles]

praise leo our lord saviour who died on the frog for us, ohmen

[Preetom]

Religions are not often made by the lord prophets themselves but through their brainchilds and followers 

4 minutes ago, Rilles said:

praise leo our lord saviour who died on the frog for us, ohmen

And yet to publish his holy book ?

 

[Forestluv]

58 minutes ago, Preetom said:

This whole "understanding all of reality" theme

You are all of reality. Beyond personality. Beyond human. Everything, infinite reality. 

An attempt to contextualize that into a form a human brain and mind can “understand” may appear as a religion to some human minds.

Don’t take my word for it. Find out for yourself. Become all of reality and then try to contextualize it human form. 

 

[Preetom]

3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

You are all of reality. Beyond personality. Beyond human. Everything, infinite reality. 

An attempt to contextualize that into a form a human brain and mind can “understand” may appear as a religion to some human minds.

Don’t take my word for it. Find out for yourself. Become all of reality and then try to contextualize it human form. 

 

Damned you are if you talk about it.

Damned you are if you dont.

Right? 

[Identity]

I think Leo is very much aware of this dynamic. He even talks about this danger in some video’s. His whole stick is direct experience and combatting ideology. Not to say it won’t happen that it becomes one, but there is only so much one can do. 

[Shin]

The difference is that the Bible is seen as the Truth,

Leo tells you he can't give you the Truth, only you can.

I think he will be smart enough not to leave any possible trails for his channel to become a religion.

[Truth Addict]

Yes, it is a religion.

1. But what's wrong with religion? If you think religion is bad, wrong, or evil, then that has automatically become your religion. You see? Although it's good to be aware of it, but if you want true liberation, you won't give a damn about other people and their ideas.
2. Not everyone has the time and ability to sit down and meditate for decades only to come to the same conclusions that everyone else has come to before them.
3. Actual spiritual realisation is not superior to religion! Direct experience is just a belief! Notice that direct experience will become a memory after the experience is gone. A memory is merely a thought, and a thought taken seriously will become a belief. You see how this thing goes full-circle? You can't escape belief, even a direct experience of God becomes a belief in the ordinary state of consciousness. So, I prefer calling the direct experience of God a personal belief, whereas the belief that is learned from teachers I would call it an impersonal belief.

To conclude, everything is perfect as it is, whether Actualized.org is a religion or not.

WE ONLY LIVE ONCE.

If you care about finding God, then go find God. If you care about happiness, then go find happiness. If you care about success, then go find success, etc...

Total freedom, do whatever you want.

Anyway, from a more practical point of view, the only thing that we can agree is a real problem with religion is its politics. If we have a religion with politics of equality and fairness, etc... Then there wouldn't be a problem at all. But that won't happen by a long shot, so the struggle will keep going..

(this post is not directed at the OP per se).

Edited May 20, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Inliytened1]

@Shin bingo.

[Shin]

Guraism.

Worhsip it or you won't get any banana.

[Aakash]

the one thing that stood out to me in this video was the explanation of enlightenment 

its known in the hindu traditions as a kaligua 

where life is said to happen in kaliguas 

after the kaliguas finished, it starts again and reality starts again.

similiarly this is what leo's advocating in metaphoric answers, meaning that this exact position in time, well i mean for argument sake this conscious level has already occurred, its just happening again and therefore reality itself becomes back into exsistence 

the difficulty behind anything to do with this is that from the start there was no change in perception, it may seem like it but in the background, what ever you held as absolute was absolute to no standards therefore its like saying whatever you believe in, comes true 

so for an enlightened person, the greatest thing is enlightenment 

for a dualistic person, the greatest thing is dualism 

therefore his video advocated all possible answers in my opinion 

 for the best way to live life, which may sound like a religious rule but its true for all possible parties 

therefore becoming the problem of pure imagination- to no standards is anything wrong 

but this is where i was confused before 

a) does it need to improve 

b) do you do it out of passion 

and thats what i took from this video is that it boils down to finding a passion as to understand what more do you want to create 

to link this to the OP, its fundamentally not religion, its ironically logical, we just don't have access to his minds back reference and this is where the challenge lies, following the 8 noble paths is exactly this- its made for your own benefit but as time goes on it gets more diluted to the point where people question it. WHILST the person who spoke it understood it in relationship to the absolute, the follower has no choice but to pick it up dogmatically. The problem then changes to when there are alternative versions of the same thing- which then become their own domains and as such religions have now formed. to the best of words knowledge this is it - what leo has said, why? because it came from god himself and the highest values of a human. i say this because my vision was to do the same exact thing. 

my post reasoning behind this is that pure imagination itself is created via itself and therefore everything gets created thats imagined, but you need someone to translate it to mundane world and that takes reading. not everyone has the aptitude to do it- i certainly don't after understanding the magnitude and therefore it becomes a question of trust in god which then reverts back to me having to become god to believe in the first place. which now makes believing okay and dogmatic. crazy lol

Edited May 20, 2019 by Aakash

[ValiantSalvatore]

I like Leo's teaching since it feels more to me like a modern version or a secular approach towards spirituality, which combines knowledge from religion, mysticism, philosophy, psychology, etc.

Also, that it is not based on belief, yet more oriented towards a practical approach on how to achieve ones "goal" in spirituality. While presenting a large spectrum of different approaches, on how to get there.

It feels like I have been chartered to an unbelievable journey, where I am privileged to meet and enjoy peoples company while learning at the same time from them.

While learning to appreciate being and isness of how things are while being aware of the limitations of language.

Also, that it is global, it is not presented to a dogmatic audience preaching Jesus is our only savior, you are all wrong for not worshipping Jesus, while also not only teaching theory. 

Theory turns into practice and knowledge, while practice generates insights which generate knowledge. While also combining aspects such as how to maintain and create a sustainable business, mastery, creative expressions art, writing etc. The whole self-actualization spectrum.

Also, being made aware of pitfalls on the path + creating an online community where people can share. The only thing I can find is somewhat similar is Quora. 

I like it because I feel I am not being presented some bull crap, that is highly egoic and self-centered. Yet, aims to transcend self and limitations and how to go about that, for instance, creating an infrastructure. The advice I would receive from friends and family is mostly around safety, yet this is a highly strategical approach towards creating living conditions that can create fulfillment. 

I never thought so many non-dual teachers existed and how interconnected and interwoven everything is and seems to be. Anyway, this is my stance/standpoint.

 

+ Freedom! 





 

Edited May 20, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[Anderz]

3 hours ago, Preetom said:

Leo Gura understood and explained all of reality

No, no! I disagree with a lot of what Leo said in his recent video. For example I do NOT believe that we live through all experiences. Time always moves forward and in a single timeline. Yesterday will never be experienced again, by anybody. And so on, a lot things I disagree with, so it's at least not a religion I follow.