Determinism or free will

[vpandey]

Here we go again at the classical debate of determinism and free will. This is all very confusing. Leo's views these days seem to be that 'We are God and we create ourselves'. That sounds like free will to me if we are one a high enough level of consciousness and not dictated by negative emotions and instinct.

On the other hand, the arguments for hard/radical determinism are very strong. And a lot of schools I've found (Stoicism, REBT, Sikhism) say that accepting reality is the way of peace. Or in other words, accepting the world exactly the way it is, even if it is against our egoic agenda.

What do the people here think? Tagging Leo Gura as I'm especially curious on his opinion. Other people who understand what I'm saying also feel free to comment.

[Shadowraix]

That's the paradox. It's both. The answer depends on which side of the coin you look at but at the end of the day it is the same coin. 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Shadowraix

[Truth Addict]

Unless someone can point to the thing that's called "free will", or experience it directly without thought, then there's nothing to argue about.

We might as well argue that flying elephants exist.

From the ego's perspective, there's no free will. From God's perspective, I don't know.

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, vpandey said:

Here we go again at the classical debate of determinism and free will. 

This is certainly something the thinking mind would like to figure out, isn’t it? Why might that be? ? 

I’ve found this question to be a key to transcending the personality. Without this key, the mind will encounter may blocks and resistances. 

For me, this awakening is not to be had in intellectualization and debate. Rather through intense detached observation. From where do thoughts arise? Am I the author of my thoughts? Who/what is the chooser? During meditation, observe intensely with these questions in mind, yet don’t go off into la-la land of thinking and figuring. Observe and the deeper insights will arise.

[Inliytened1]

@Shadowraix Bingo.  Nailed it.

[Consilience]

As odd as it may sound, yeah... The duality between free will and determinism eventually collapses. It’s neither, both, or one or the other all depending on your perspective. Reality just is, always, right now. This is definitely a wild insight and cannot be understood with the mind. You just have to become conscious of it. Which isnt a helpful answer per-say but it’s a good pointer imo. 

[Inliytened1]

Its actually both simultaneously.

They're superimposed right on top of each other just like existence and non-existence.

Because infinity is Infinite..it must be pre-determined - everything already happened - and yet you must have free will at the same time.

When you grasp Infinity all of these things start becoming clear.  It will blow your mind away into a thousand pieces.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

@Consilience yes when we look at it from a non-dual perspective aka Gods formless perspective there is only Being.  Isness. Pure potential.  That is the Absolute and the facets of the Absolutes that we talk about.

Of course to God the whole thing is One.  Form and formless are One.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Jack Walter Leon]

There is a free will, but not on the ego level. If your ego had free will, it would try to avoid everything that is unpleasant because it hates to suffer and you couldn't experience those bad moments. In your higher form as God you determine everything that you want to experience in your limited form as a human being even if it hurts your ego. So your life is completely predetermined but it's still exactly what you want to experience as God. It's like two sides of the same coin. 

[ivankiss]

Freeterminism 

[Nahm]

@vpandey You’d need two for either. 

[tenta]

4 hours ago, vpandey said:

Here we go again at the classical debate of determinism and free will. This is all very confusing. Leo's views these days seem to be that 'We are God and we create ourselves'. That sounds like free will to me if we are one a high enough level of consciousness and not dictated by negative emotions and instinct.

 

That wouldn't mean we have free will in any way.

And yes there are strong arguments for determinism

 

 

[Billy Shears]

I would love to hear @Leo Gura's current opinion on free will. It's been a few years since his 'free will vs determinism' video on YouTube and I guess the statements in this video aren't up up date anymore concerning his development of consciousness through the years. 

[Inliytened1]

One thing to add is when you have both superimposed right on top of each other as i was saying, what you are left with is the appearance of free will.

Just like Reality is everything and nothing superimposed.  What you get is a hologram, or more accurately a hallucination or dream.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Commodent]

I'm curious why people are so preoccupied with this question, as it seems rather abstract and impractical. Is it a way to cope with feelings of blame and guilt? I know it was in my case.

[AlwaysBeNice]

Ur a frequency space, within a frequency space. Even the gravitational burp of a black whole flows through you, and effects you, also dna, conditioning, natural preferences.

So how much of you, is separately is making a choice, none. 

-

And things appear spontaneously, dreams appear out of nothing, there is no creator god in that sense, which would also just appear.

Doesn't everything just appear?

- idk, feels like sometimes, there's some creative intelligence, but idk, not as a separate you, and some enlightened people say it can be realized it's all only spontaneous, seems right.

[Shadowraix]

@Commodent I am too. I see it popping up all the time. Everytime the answers are roughly the same. 

[arlin]

Free will vs determinism is definitely confusing.

 

[Inliytened1]

@arlin what fun would reality be if it was easy to figure out?

[arlin]

@Inliytened1 Hey hey hey, true winsdom here huh?