To All Struggling Males: Stop Playing Victim!

[Commodent]

On 17.5.2019 at 8:47 AM, Leo Gura said:

You need to deliberately re-structure your life so that you're automatically being more social.

Do you have a video on this? Concrete, practical tips for re-structuring your life in a way that fascilitates social interaction? I feel like I'm good with girls once I actually meet them, but that is so rare.

And do you drink alcohol when you're going out? I've found that alcohol consumption severely hinders my ability to recharge my batteries in the weekends, so I generally avoid it. I also feel like those going out are mostly just talking with their own circle of friends, and if you decide to strike up a conversation with a stranger you're a weirdo. I've been going out several times with the local basketall team, and even they are really just talking with each other. Same goes for the American pros on the team. So I don't feel nightclubs and bars are a good place to meet new people.

[CreamCat]

On 5/17/2019 at 3:47 PM, Leo Gura said:

A real man is a feminist.

That just puzzles me. I think a real man is not necessarily a feminist.

[CreamCat]

On 6/7/2019 at 1:12 AM, d0ornokey said:

A feminist is someone who is fighting for equality

That's like saying I'm a jew because I don't like eating pig or saying I'm a communist because I'm sick of hierarchy or saying I'm a socialist because I want UBI. Andrew Yang is anything but a socialist. A vegan is not a jew.

I think that phrase is just a manipulative slogan to recruit people into feminism.

A manipulative slogan uses inaccurate meanings of words to confuse people.

A manipulative patent uses vague meanings of words to capture other companies.

Edited June 16, 2019 by CreamCat

[ajasatya]

@CreamCat What does "feminism" mean to you, exactly?

When it was first created, feminism was a movement to defend equal rights between men and women. In that sense, how come is a real man not a feminist?

[CreamCat]

16 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

When it was first created, feminism was a movement to defend equal rights between men and women. In that sense, how come is a real man not a feminist?

• Being a real man does not necessarily involve wanting equal rights between men and women.
• Equality between men and women is not the same thing as "equality". One can talk about equality of wealth distribution which has little to do with gender.
• Equality between men and women can be pursued in different ways. I can pursue it in ways that feminists disagree.
  In reality, feminism entails certain kinds of gender equality. I briefly interacted with anti-feminist groups, and they also pursue gender equality.
  Different groups view gender equality differently and think different things are gender equality. Gender equality from one side is gender inequality from the other side, and vice versa. Equality is inherently relative to other people and thus flimsy. That's why I don't take equality seriously. I also don't take rights seriously. Equality and rights are fantastical concepts.
  People are poorly equipped to discern between equality and inequality.
  • Equality can be considered a privilege instead of a right. No one is automatically entitled to a privilege. Things in life demand work from your side.

16 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

What does "feminism" mean to you, exactly?

I don't know the core of feminism as Leo Gura knows the core of islam. But, I know many weakly developed women use feminsm for all sorts of weird reasons and manipulative survival agendas that I may not know about. They wouldn't know feminism better than I do, anyway.

Just as islam can mean different things for different misguided muslims, so can feminism. I don't care much about the core of feminism for the same reason that I don't care about the core of islam. Most people don't care about the core of anything. That's what matters. People don't care.

Edited June 16, 2019 by CreamCat

[ajasatya]

@CreamCat You're over complicating this and you didn't answer my straightforward question.

I don't call myself a feminist nowadays but I do want men and women to have equal rights. Everyone should be allowed to go to school, vote, ask for a divorce, start a career etc. This is very basic for me and thinking otherwise doesn't make much sense to me. I'm done here... I have nothing else to add for now.

[CreamCat]

@ajasatya See above. I added more. In a nutshell, I don't care what feminism is because different people mean radically different things when they say feminism and gender equality. People don't use the same language.

Edited June 16, 2019 by CreamCat

[CreamCat]

15 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

Everyone should be allowed to go to school, vote, ask for a divorce, start a career etc.

Just to clarify, I have no problem with that. You just want to remove totally unnecessary structures that hold us back.

I also think that's a low standard. That's not enough to thrive and have a good life. We have bigger fishes to fry.

Edited June 16, 2019 by CreamCat

[ajasatya]

3 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

@ajasatya See above. I added more. In a nutshell, I don't care what feminism is because different people mean radically different things when they say feminism and gender equality. People don't use the same language.

That's why I asked you that question. There is no consensus on what feminism is. The term is so wide nowadays that I can argue that any reasonably intelligent person should be a feminist and I can also argue that feminism is a dumb idea. It's very nuanced.

I'm not here to define what feminism is and what it's not. I'm just pointing out that you're not going anywhere by getting all spiky and prolix about it.

[Angelo D]

Yeah, I agree with ajasatya

Edited June 16, 2019 by Angelo D
Wrote it wrong

[August]

On 17.5.2019 at 8:47 AM, Leo Gura said:

I see a chronic problem on this sub-forum, which is young males who complain about lack of success with women and failing to take responsibility for their situation.

And stop watching or listening to any of the following:

• Jordan Peterson, MGTOW, RedPill, Incel material/forums/reddit

All of that is cancer of the mind. It's reinforcing your victim mindset and robbing you of your ability to change yourself.

At 19 years of age i started writing this comment and i'll admit, i might turn 20 before im done.

Gura, i have grown with you the past year. I have listened carefully to you, and loved doing it. I also even know why, your insights might be profound, they can maybe even be futuristic, and immensely challenging to a teenager or even anyone in this day and age. But nothing of it would have touched me the same way if it weren't for the genuine energy you radiate. I think some of us are gifted with the intuition of who is genuine and who is not so much, and the community who have gathered around your insights probably consist of us with superpowers of such. haha.

Flatter aside, i'm a Norwegian, rather privileged young man born in a family of two pretty left leaning parents. I have analysed their political positions for like 7 or 8 years, and surely gotten more and more aware of it. Their positions are coming from a place of compassion, and that is strong, no doubt about it. But compassionate thinking can tilt towards tyranny, balance as in everything else is a key word here. Yeah, now u wonder what the hell this has to do with the quote of yours, and watch out cause now i'm coming for you. 

My goal is not to do a Crowder and give you a "Leo Gura has no clue about Jordan Peterson, change my mind", but it wont hurt to express how weirded out i am about one role-model completely undermining the other. And yes that is the age of the internet, a role model for me is a person which actions and ways of thinking and being is something for me to strive for, even if i have no direct dialog and so forth with the person concerned. 

It can be essential to the readers understanding of the text to understand that i'm doing fine and i have started learning my path forward, I've had some minor to normal depression here and there as is expected from someone living a more and more isolated life, as the big majority of people and their falseness started to bore me literally to hell (i live on a island so it will be temporarily), and so i have found my type of people on the internet, a boat i'm far from being alone in. 

How does it come that a person who have followed the teachings of yours right up until the first relativity ep. and is finding the big majority of your words to have great value for the individual, also sees much of the same philosophy in JP's doings? I've seen dozen up on dozen with people both in your forum and the utube channel having not much clue on what your, well to say harsh critique is to put it lightly, of jp is all about, and i cant see it either, or maybe i do, we'll find out.

He told me, hell he told men and women over the whole globe to find some courage to do the most unbearable task and carry the burden of our responsibility whatever it might be, he encourage us to not trust him on it, but to find it within. But every man with some sense can understand this you might say, or wait no you might not, we all have blind spots but this surely is not one of yours, cause you know what the lack of responsibility is. And you know it is not pleasant. 

Him breaking up in tears every time he even talks about the people he helped helping them self turning life to a better place for themselves and those around is powerful, that you hopefully do not deny. His "preaching" as you would say is others peoples medicine, the exact same medicine people have gotten from you, the same i got from you. It might not be the same in your non-dual not-mind mind, but it sure is the same for those who needed someone to tell them to straighten the hell up, and as we definitely could agree on it is of no difference if it was me, you, trump or jp who helped them bear the cross, and if they are opposed to political correctness or left leaning people it wont matter much as that is far from the real important stuff in life anyway.

You can disagree with the man politically, you can think he has a bad understanding of marx, feminism, sjw, trump or global warming or whatever suits your view or your monkey brain category of him. But dear Leo, you have come way to long on your journey to look at yourself being this, i don't even know what to call it, simple, it does not matter what we call it you may get my point either way. You opposing him this way for sure is mind blowing for me, well at least it tells something of the standard you are setting, that's to admit.

You wrote that he "robs your ability to change yourself" , and as i for my case know this is false relative to me, its also the pure opposite to mad many others, which makes me wonder. Is it possible, a slight chance you are speaking for yourself? Is it that which JP does, he reinforce the little victim mindset you have left? Is is "you" not as the perciever but as the presenter that have jumped over some development work and not managed to outgrown some steam from the past (that is directly translated from norwegian and i don't know if its something you say in eEnglish, it means hard times). It is typical to feeling as a victim if one has experienced authoritarian christian regimes in the home, then surely one can argue that there's really have been a victim.

All this aside, i don't claim to know your past at all or if my last hypothesis bear any meaning what so ever. But even if JP only makes people worse and when he helps people its just pure devilry they just don't understand it yet. Is it right to tell men to not listen to him? If i were to not agree with him at all, he still have talked about so many things that there at least is challenging content that with the right mindset will help us grow anyway? But no, as you state, its just cancer to the mind.. 

I wouldn't expect you to read this, you have so many people who needs your answer more then me, but if you by any chance were to come across this comment if not simply for my sake but for the other of us who struggle with understanding the JP critique of yours could you elaborate more in depth of where you are coming from? Maybe as a thread, or maybe as a reply. 

[August]

@Leo Gura Would like you to read my comment i posted a week back in this thread of yours, its on page 6.

[Marinus]

I haven't done much day game, but I really improved my social life. I think that's the first step. I feel so better, I make people laugh, I go out, I worked on friendships, girls like to interact with me more, etc. These things really help. I never had this, but it's really about feeling good in your own skin and that's something you will radiate, like a healing aura ?. 

[Hardkill]

Legit dating coaches are: James Tusk, Locario, RSD, Gunwitch, Gambler, and Chris from GLL are all good coaches/experts with women. Mystery is not so great and neither are coaches like Adam Lyons.

Also, start off focusing developing your masculinity and confidence before you worry about improving your charisma. Developing the strength of the mindset really is the first most important to do before learning how to be socially skilled with women. Otherwise, you will have a very difficult if not impossible time in dealing with rejecting and managing your own self-esteem. Also, you can still get some of the kind of women you want by simply being masculine with out having GREAT skills (as long as your social skills are at least at an average level).

Edited July 3, 2019 by Hardkill

[Hardkill]

So, Leo and moderators, if the men out here who have been struggling with women really have been struggling mostly because they have not been putting in enough work then what do you say about this guy who says that he couldn’t even get ONE girl after approaching thousands of women himself in a sexual manner?

 

[Tim Stretton]

Leo, thank you.  I will take in what you advise.  I am 53 now (July 2019), and I will say that there are some unconscious women out there.  I suppose this message is for them too.  I have two kids, and I have “older” physical traits by now, some I can work on and doing already, and some I cannot.  I am no Spartacus, and I don’t pretend to be!  We are the men we can only be after all our efforts.  I think also that it also comes down to acceptance.  In the meantime, I am just happy and lucky that I am alive and reasonably healthy.  Life is far too short to worry about the small stuff!  Finally, I am aware of that good old message between couples for those who celebrate it on this planet: marriage vows.  I could be wrong, but I think that they speak volumes.  Cheers!  

[Ananta]

I think this thread needs "bumped". So, many men posting victim type threads/posts lately. Just one after another.

[Key Elements]

Before a person join any groups or make any decisions on what to say or do, think about this: is your objective to uplift the other person/group on whatever issues the other is having, or is it to silence and bring down the other person/group to prove that you're more right? Wouldn't it be better if your questions are: how can I help this person achieve his/her goal? What can I bring to this that only I could bring? Am I misinterpreting / misunderstanding the other person? Am I being a good listener? Did the other person misinterpret what I'm saying? If yes, that's not an excuse to debate, debunk, or attack the other person.

[PenguinPablo]

@Hardkill Leo is below average in looks. He is unfit, skinny, looks like a nerd, is a nerd, and worst of all he is bald. He still made it work. How? HE DEVELOPED HIMSELF into an attractive man. The reason why some people can approach 10000000000000000000 girls and still not get results is because they are not making adjustments to their approach or putting any thought into it, and lastly becoming more authentic. Going through the motions is not enough. He have to put some thought into it. Be honest with yourself. Simultaneously you have to let go of the emotions and attitudes holding you back. It is certainly possible to take a class at college 10000000000000000000 and fail every time. You have to change the strategy. The outer game AND inner game.

[ugreglo]

The opinion that sex is not earned/blackpill is very unpopular and not something wide spread.

Edited November 23, 2019 by ugreglo